[Trade] Flames acquire Roman Horak and 2x 2011 2nd rd picks for Tim Erixon and 5th rd pick

[Igottago]

Could've been worse. At first glance I thought the thread said "Flames trade for Roman Hamrlik".

[FAN]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Another angle to look at - Gormley/Schwartz vs. Erixon

The deal for Jokinen was Calgary's 1st rounder in either 2009 or 2010, at Calgary's option.

Had we opted to deal our 1st rounder in 2009, we're not having this conversation, and possibly have Brandon Gormley (or Jaden Schwartz) in our prospect pool. 23rd overall in 2009 was a late 1st rounder and perhaps a more prudent pick to deal to Phoenix, that being said, who knew where we were going to finish in the standings in 2010.

So it boils down to: Would you rather have the 2 2nd rounders in this year's draft or one of Gormley/Schwartz? Up to the scouts to find top flight talent this year so that this doesn't become a discussion point should one of Gormley/Schwartz become a star.

Nah it's not as simple as that given Darryl traded down and passed on guys like Jacofson and John Moore. And BTW the Flames had the 20th overall pick rather than the 23rd overall pick in 2009.

Regardless, I don't blame Sutter for choosing to keep the 2009 pick. The 2009 draft looked to be a bit deeper and in hindsight, given how the 2009 draft played out, I think the quality of players available at #20 in 2009 is better than the quality of players available at #20 in 2010. Given where the Flames were Darryl can't make a decision based on the fact that the Flames MIGHT miss the playoffs the next year. Is there a player drafted #20-30 in the 2010 draft you like a whole lot more than Erixon?

There's also a certain value in having a prospect that is one year further along in development. All else being equal, between drafting this year and next year, you draft this year and get a prospect who will be further along in his development.

[Ring of Fire]

Originally Posted by pewpew

Maybe there was, but Feaster could just have easily traded him elsewhere.

I doubt it. The trade was conditional on Erixon signing. Chances are he wouldn't have signed with any team but the Rangers and taken his chance in the draft the second time round. A player not signing an ELC probably would also raise red flags with some other teams.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by pewpew

Maybe there was, but Feaster could just have easily traded him elsewhere.

Not really. The trade was conditional to him signing, which took all of 5 minutes. He and his agent were ready to go back into the draft. I doubt he would have signed anywhere other than NY. If he went back into the draft there was a good chance that NY would have picked him with their 15th pick. Even if he is picked before by another team he still would have given himself a chance to get to NY.

[Da_Chief]

In MLB if picks don't sing you get the same pick next year. NHL needs to get their heads out there arses and put in a same system.

[Reign of Fire]

It was pretty obvious with the way New York was constantly involved (according to Feaster), they knew before hand that Erixon and "his camp" were only interested in coming to NY. And Sather knew Calgary was desperate to make a deal when that became apparent. Its pretty obvious it was tampering, but again no way to prove it. Flames should think twice before dealing with any player with the same agent in the future, and in fact other GMs should take notice how this agent operates as well.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

In MLB if picks don't sing you get the same pick next year. NHL needs to get their heads out there arses and put in a same system.

What if a player just doesn't pan out and after two years it is evident - do they still get the same pick?

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Hate to say this, but Jbo is killing the team!

How the heck do you squeeze this in here????

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

What if a player just doesn't pan out and after two years it is evident - do they still get the same pick?

I am not MLB fan, but I am guessing it probably has to do with player refusing to sign

[Jim Peplinski]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

It was pretty obvious with the way New York was constantly involved (according to Feaster), they knew before hand that Erixon and "his camp" were only interested in coming to NY. And Sather knew Calgary was desperate to make a deal when that became apparent. Its pretty obvious it was tampering, but again no way to prove it. Flames should think twice before dealing with any player with the same agent in the future, and in fact other GMs should take notice how this agent operates as well.

I agree. The Flames should adopt a team policy to not draft or trade for any player represented by Grossman or his firm. I don't care if it reduces the number of available players. Grossman is as sleazy as they come. And yes, that means that I don't want anything to do with resigning babchuk.

[FastEddy]

MOD EDIT: If you can't make your point without making a fat joke your post doesn't get to stay.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

What if a player just doesn't pan out and after two years it is evident - do they still get the same pick?

There is no 2 year window, I think they only have months to come to terms after they're drafted.

Increase the contracts limit, 50 is too low anyways. If you have full NHL, AHL, ECHL squads, thats minimum 66 contracts.

[fanman]

Wow. At first when I heard about this I was really angry with Feaster. But after calming down, reading news releases and quotes and this thread I have to say it really seems like the Flames were screwed over here.

The image they have of not playing prospects enough may be earned, but it's still a dirty thing for Erixon to do to the team that drafted him. The fact that he signed so quickly in NY and with what appears to be so little questioning and negotiations makes it look even worse. He was offered every option in terms of money and conveniently turned them all down. The rest just seems like excuses.

Is there a guarantee he will be playing on the Rangers right off the hop? I would assume that if he doesn't earn a spot there he would be sent to the AHL.... which is the same thing that would have happened with the Flames. Erixon just didn't want to play in Calgary, and held them over the barrel until the last minute when they would have few choices left. Apparently he feels like he doesn't have to earn his way onto the team, having never played a season on North American ice or at the NHL level. At least Feaster was able to pull something positive out of this mess. Boo to you Timmy. I hope Backlund runs him over the next time we play the Rangers.

And I agree with others who have said the Flames need to play a couple rookies next year. Although I think it was mostly excuses from Erixon's camp, this is something that could become very bad for the Flames future image if it hasn't already. I really hope someone (Brodie for example) earns a spot on the team next season.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by FastEddy

MOD EDIT

I agree. I think if Feaster puts his foot down and says he would rather let Erixon go into the draft unless the return is a first rounder or good prospect, I think Sather maybe caves and gives it up.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

What if a player just doesn't pan out and after two years it is evident - do they still get the same pick?

Players only have like 4 months or something like that to sign before going back into the draft.

Usually players in the first couple rounds will sign if the dollars are right for their talent level. If not, they'll refuse to sign, and try to get drafted higher next time.

If I recall correctly, players that don't sign in the 1st round round, you get a pick that is in between the first and 2nd round (2nd rounders, you get a pick between the 2nd and 3rd rounds, but after that there's no compensation)

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I agree. I think if Feaster puts his foot down and says he would rather let Erixon go into the draft unless the return is a first rounder or good prospect, I think Sather maybe bulks and gives it up.

Wait, so you agree that Feaster failed because he should have put his foot down, then maybe Sather would have given in? But if Sather didn't give in and Erixon went back into the draft, you wouldn't be saying Feaster COMPLETELY failed now would you?

Everyone's smarter than NHL GM's from the comfort of their computer.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Wait, so you agree that Feaster failed because he should have put his foot down, then maybe Sather would have given in? But if Sather didn't give in and Erixon went back into the draft, you wouldn't be saying Feaster COMPLETELY failed now would you?

Everyone's smarter than NHL GM's from the comfort of their computer.

I am saying he should have called their bluff. I, unlike many others, am not a big fan on the return we got. We basically got three assets that may or may not ever play in the NHL for a guy that is likely to be in the NHL next year. Its obvious Erixon wanted to play in New York and Rangers wanted him too. Call their bluff and see if they fold, I think Rangers knew he they couldn't get him at 15 and I don't think Erixon is any position to risk where he ends up, what if its Edmonton or Winnipeg who drafted him. I am not saying Feaster Completely failed, but given that he had 4 weeks to gauge Erixon on a entry level contract, he certainly dropped the ball to a certain extent.

[FastEddy]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I agree. I think if Feaster puts his foot down and says he would rather let Erixon go into the draft unless the return is a first rounder or good prospect, I think Sather maybe caves and gives it up.

This was a test and I almost can see Sather smirking knowing he had an easy mark. This is kind of what I expected from Feaster.

Granted, Feaster was in a tough spot. Obviously, too early to make a judgement on Feaster, but I am more skeptical than ever and I am a huge skeptic.

[arloiginla]

Well there's one other avenue the Flames could have explored here that doesn't seem to have been discussed much.

They could have let Erixon re-enter and pick him 13th overall.

At first it seems dumb as you are basically throwing away a 1st rounder since you used two firsts on the same player.

But it would also

a) show Erixon's camp that this kind of monkey business doesn't fly
b) show Slats that the tampering business doesn't fly

Or at the very least you tell Sather that you have no problems re-drafting at 13 and force the price up in the trade. Let it be clear to Erixon's camp as well...see if they are willing to throw away another 2 years of his career just to eventually play somewhere else.

Would be a ballsy thing to do but I guess we'll never know how it might have turned out.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by FastEddy

This was a test and I almost can see Sather smirking knowing he had an easy mark. This is kind of what I expected from Feaster.

Granted, Feaster was in a tough spot. Obviously, too early to make any judgement but I am more skeptical than ever and I am a huge skeptic.

Sather certainly took advantage of the situation and I haven't been a big fan of Feaster either, this certainly doesn't help.