[Trade] PK Subban for Shea Weber. 1 for 1.

[JohnnyT]

Originally Posted by Jacks

That doesn't make any sense. The salary is still being accounted for but the previous year(s) cap benefits aren't. Your quote doesn't mention anything about recapture. If that was the case Chicago would just buy out Hossa next year and take the $300K buyout hit with no recapture penalties.

Here's an form of the quote from the CBA:

Upon that Player's failure to play in the League by reason
of retirement, "defection" from the NHL or otherwise (but
not death) (such that he is not playing and is not receiving
Salary pursuant to his Long-Term Contract) (assuming it is
prior to the conclusion of the Long-Term Contract), the
difference between the sum of the Actual Salary and
Bonuses received by that Player under that SPC and the
sum of the Averaged Amounts charged against the Club's
Averaged Club Salary under that SPC shall be calculated as
follows: ...

(iv)
The Cap Advantage Recapture shall be
charged against the Club's Averaged Club Salary in equal
proportions in each League Year over the remaining term
of the SPC (i.e., the yearly charge shall be calculated by
dividing the Cap Advantage Recapture by the number of
seasons remaining under that SPC).

A buyout is not failure to play in the league by retirement, defection or otherwise(but not death) (such that he is not playing and is not receiving Salary pursuant to his Long-Term Contract). I don't interpret a buyout as otherwise because a buyout is a form of Salary pursuant to his Long-Term Contract.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Hockey

Be interesting to see how Subban does against the tough west opponents. Same thing for Weber against the softer East.

Subban has never been one to avoid contact. He's always been a very physical player. Nashville seems like a good fit for him.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JohnnyT

That's the same interpretation that I took away from reading through the CBA.
Basically I don't think Nashville has to worry about the recapture penalty:
[LIST][*]Weber has no incentive to retire prior to the end of his contract and forfeit his remaining salary

No incentive? 40 year old pro athletes certainly have an incentive to retire - their bodies are no longer responding to the grind of 80+ game seasons. Now consider that in the final three years of his deal Weber is owed $1,000,000 each year. That's 3 million dollars in three years off of a $110,000,000 contract. Do the math, he's practically playing for free in those three years relative to the money he'll have made.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by getbak

Go to CapFriendly and run their buyout calculator: https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout_c...r/marian-hossa


Buyouts do account for the extra money that has already been paid to a player.

I ran it for Shea Weber for the 2023 season and it shows 3 years at $7.19M/year and then $333K for 3 more years. That is pretty much exactly what was being discussed. Capfriendly doesn't show which team takes that cap hit, that would surely be NSH though since they saw the benefit.

[killer_carlson]

I think we will see some sort of passing of the torch of massive defensive presences from Chara to Weber at some point this season. They'll probably fight or get in each other's grill.

Weber will be very effective out there for the first few years...

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I ran it for Shea Weber for the 2023 season and it shows 3 years at $7.19M/year and then $333K for 3 more years. That is pretty much exactly what was being discussed. Capfriendly doesn't show which team takes that cap hit, that would surely be NSH though since they saw the benefit.

That's not how buyouts work. The buyout is paid by the team buying the player out. If Montreal were to buy him out, they would take on the cap hit from the buyout. Which is exactly what I said from the beginning.

It's not cap recapture. It's a buyout.

[JohnnyT]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

No incentive? 40 year old pro athletes certainly have an incentive to retire - their bodies are no longer responding to the grind of 80+ game seasons. Now consider that in the final three years of his deal Weber is owed $1,000,000 each year. That's 3 million dollars in three years off of a $110,000,000 contract. Do the math, he's practically playing for free in those three years relative to the money he'll have made.

Sorry that's the business background coming out. When I was mentioning incentive I meant financial incentive thinking of previous players like Datsyuk and Kovalchuk who "retired" to go back home and make essentially the same or more substantially.

Could he retire in those final three years, yes that is absolutely a possibility. However, personally I feel its much more likely that the plays out the full contract, goes on LITR if his body breaks down or he gets injured, or is bought out by Montreal. I'm sure Nashville measured these options too and came out with the same conclusion or that the benefit of Subban for 6 years is worth a potential recapture penalty down the line

[savemedrzaius]

What a prick! Sounds like a horrible teammate/person.

“This can’t be real,” said a social worker at the Montreal Children’s Hospital, her office mere steps from the atrium that bears Subban’s name.

“There’s going to be a lot of crying children here,” she added. “It’s not just the donation he made. He showed up here unannounced all the time, he developed relationships with them, brightened their lives. He was a God to them.”

Subban seemingly had that effect on almost everyone in Montreal.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/s...gh-act-follow/

[OzSome]

This is another shocker! A good hockey trade as far as I am concern. Good trade for Montreal getting Shea Weber but I think Nashville is getting a good guy in Subban as well. He is much younger. Love him or hate him I think Subban is an important guy in Montreal on and off the ice.

[You Need a Thneed]

All this cap recapture talk again makes me smile knowing that the Flames were and will be the only team to successfully circumvent the salary cap with a backdiving contract.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

All this cap recapture talk again makes me smile knowing that the Flames were and will be the only team to successfully circumvent the salary cap with a backdiving contract.

That's because they were the only team not to get greedy about it. There was only one year of backdive, the cap hit was still pretty close to market value, and the whole shebang was over and done before the new CBA introduced recapture penalties. If Sutter had tried to finagle even one more year at the end, we'd have been hit with the whammy.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Shocked Montreal did this. Carey Price might have been the heart and soul of the team, but Subban was the heart and soul of Montreal.

I think for the first few seasons, this will be a 'wash'. Weber is a better all-around defencemen (IMO) than Subban is now. Subban is more of a game-breaker now, however. Put him in Nasvhille, and I bet his defensive game takes off and he becomes a better defencemen than Weber is from the get-go.

Crazy 'Star for Star' trade that rarely happens. Even crazier than the Johansen for Jones trade.

Montreal needs to rebuild though. They should have traded Subban for futures (as well as Carey Price, who would return a ransom). They are a poorly built team. Weber is probably a better fit there for plugging up more holes (especially on the defensive side of things), but that boat has about 10 leaks, and Carey Price's fingers are in all of them at the moment. One more leak, and that ship goes down.

[StrykerSteve]

https://amp.twimg.com/v/1368bf25-308...a-b38203bd00f5

[habernac]

After sleeping on it, I still hate this trade. Therrien's ego won over Subban's. If you can't handle millionaires who have egos, perhaps you shouldn't coach in the NHL.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by habernac

After sleeping on it, I still hate this trade. Therrien's ego won over Subban's. If you can't handle millionaires who have egos, perhaps you shouldn't coach in the NHL.

Bergevin too, I think. Not just Therrien.
There's a pall over the city today. A day of mourning.

[Senator Clay Davis]

And yet for me after sleeping on it, clearly it's a PR disaster but as a hockey move it's pretty much fine. Offensively Subban is slightly better and defensively Weber much better, but the Canadiens aren't winning the Cup with either unless Carey Price goes into his 2014-2015 God mode. But if he does they'll be a threat to win it even with Weber, and might even be a slightly better threat in the next 2-3 years with Weber instead, but certainly not appreciably worse. I just can't believe they chose Thierrien over Subban.

[Hockeyguy15]

Price for Elliot?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by habernac

After sleeping on it, I still hate this trade. Therrien's ego won over Subban's. If you can't handle millionaires who have egos, perhaps you shouldn't coach in the NHL.

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Bergevin too, I think. Not just Therrien.
There's a pall over the city today. A day of mourning.

Also, inexplicably, Geoff Molson. And Montreal media is calling it the worst trade since Pat Roy.

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/br...trick-roy-deal

It’s a bad deal for the Habs and a great one for the Preds. And Subban is being run out of town by Bergevin and Therrien, who never appeared to like him. They like grunts. Therrien has said he has a blue-collar team, which is just one more piece of evidence that he’s delusional. He has a skill team, but all he sees are lunch-bucket-carrying lunkheads. Pathetic.

Bergevin is a former journeyman defenceman and I believe he always resented Subban. He never liked this guy who was a vedette from the moment he arrived. Bergevin didn’t like the star power, the gangster garb, the headline-stealing moves like giving a huge pledge to the Montreal Children’s Hospital.

I understand why Bergevin and Therrien seem to dislike Subban. He’s everything they’re not. What surprises me most in all this is that Molson signed off on the deal. Molson, after all, was the guy who reportedly stepped in when Bergevin mismanaged the negotiations with Subban in the summer of 2014 and went to arbitration. Molson reportedly ordered his GM to sign Subban and I thought that proved Molson understood what Subban brought to the organization, both on and off the ice.

He is the most exciting player to don a Habs jersey since Guy Lafleur and if you don’t believe that, you weren’t watching that epic seven-game victory over the Boston Bruins in the 2014 playoffs when Subban literally lifted the team on his shoulders and willed a win out of them.

But he’s also so much more than a hockey player. He’s an incredibly charismatic young man who provides intelligent articulate answers to journalists’ questions, has been known to stop and jump out of his car to join a road-hockey game in Lower Westmount and has shown remarkable class in all the years that Habs management has treated him in shoddy fashion.

But the Canadiens have always had a problem with larger-than-life figures, with anyone who might be bigger than the Church-like Habs organization. Lafleur, Chelios, Roy. It’s a little depressing.

And another one bites the dust.

Go Bruins!

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Also, inexplicably, Geoff Molson. And Montreal media is calling it the worst trade since Pat Roy.

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/br...trick-roy-deal

Wow...Go Bruins? They are pissed.

[Finger Cookin]