2015/2016 - Predict the starting lineup

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

A lot of lineup projections show no Smid or no Raymond. Problem is if those guys can't win a job coming out of camp, what do you do with them? I don't see any teams paying a total of $7.6 million for two healthy scratches on the Flames. I suppose you can trade them if you give up prospects or picks alongside but is that we want?

More than likely they are going to be collecting big checks to eat popcorn in the pressbox. I can't see anybody taking Raymond even if we eat 50% of his salary. The same probably could be said for Smid unless he shows he is 100% healthy during training camp.

[Red Menace]

I think they'll have to send some of these guys like Ratmond, Smid etc to the minors (assuming everyone is healthy).
Everyone assumes Granlund will be in the minors because of his contract status..but he played more in the NHL last year than he did in the AHL...do we really want to impede his progress?
One of many tough questions for Flames org this seson.
Personally I would send Raymond, Smid and Bollig all to the minors....it won't happen, but it might be best for the team.

[heep223]

I think you guys are under estimating the market for Raymond. He's a streaky middle six veteran winger. Plenty of guys make their living with that identity...Comeau, Stempniak, Glencross are ones that come to mind that we are familiar with. Heck even Jones. There is a market for them, even with Raymond's contract. He is moveable IMO. Particularly if he shows any signs of bouncing back from an off year.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by heep223

I think you guys are under estimating the market for Raymond. He's a streaky middle six veteran winger. Plenty of guys make their living with that identity...Comeau, Stempniak, Glencross are ones that come to mind that we are familiar with. Heck even Jones. There is a market for them, even with Raymond's contract. He is moveable IMO. Particularly if he shows any signs of bouncing back from an off year.

The problem is that Stempniak and Glencross are both sitting at home waiting for a new contract for next season. Until those types of players are off the free agent market, the trade market for a guy like Raymond is going to be small if not non-existent.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by getbak

The problem is that Stempniak and Glencross are both sitting at home waiting for a new contract for next season. Until those types of players are off the free agent market, the trade market for a guy like Raymond is going to be small if not non-existent.

100% agree. I would also add that getting close to August, Stempniak and Glencross are probably looking at one year contracts. Raymond has 2 years left. I know if i was a GM just trying to fill out his roster with average players, i rather have the guy on a 1 year contract over a 2 year contract. Not to mention if the flames take on 50% of contract, they are going to want a late round pick back in trade. The other 2 will cost nothing but money.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

100% agree. I would also add that getting close to August, Stempniak and Glencross are probably looking at one year contracts. Raymond has 2 years left. I know if i was a GM just trying to fill out his roster with average players, i rather have the guy on a 1 year contract over a 2 year contract. Not to mention if the flames take on 50% of contract, they are going to want a late round pick back in trade. The other 2 will cost nothing but money.

At this point they would probably both cost less than Raymond too.

That said, I'd rather have Raymond than either one of those guys. (Given how bad Glencross played in Washington.)

[saXon]

Originally Posted by getbak

Hockey's Cap has Bennett listed on the Flames roster, which is why their available cap space is lower than the others.

There's also discrepancy over Granlund's cap hit. NHL Numbers has it at $925,000 and Hockey's Cap and General Fanager have it at $767,500.

Where oh where is Capgeek when you need it?

[Red Menace]

I just think the start of the season is a very hard time to move players. Most teams have their rosters fairly set and want to see how their own players and prospects fare before making any decisions to make a trade. I still feel the Flames will be forced to send 2-3 NHLers to Stockton at the start of the season.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I just think the start of the season is a very hard time to move players. Most teams have their rosters fairly set and want to see how their own players and prospects fare before making any decisions to make a trade. I still feel the Flames will be forced to send 2-3 NHLers to Stockton at the start of the season.

You don't expect any injuries? I for one do. All it takes is 2F and 1D to open the year on IR and no NHLer that is waiver eligible needs to be exposed.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by heep223

I think you guys are under estimating the market for Raymond. He's a streaky middle six veteran winger. Plenty of guys make their living with that identity...Comeau, Stempniak, Glencross are ones that come to mind that we are familiar with. Heck even Jones. There is a market for them, even with Raymond's contract. He is moveable IMO. Particularly if he shows any signs of bouncing back from an off year.

Originally Posted by getbak

The problem is that Stempniak and Glencross are both sitting at home waiting for a new contract for next season. Until those types of players are off the free agent market, the trade market for a guy like Raymond is going to be small if not non-existent.

I was curious to do some looking around the league to find some additional players that meet this criteria (off the top of my head....I haven't looked at stats too intently). Players without a contract for next year are (UFA).

- Comeau, Stempniak (UFA), Glennie (UFA) as mentioned
- Fleischmann (UFA)
- McGinn
- Versteeg
- Clarkson
- Korpikoski
- Upshall (UFA)
- Kopecky (UFA)
- Boyes (UFA)
- Bergenheim (UFA)
- Bernier (UFA)
- Grabner
- Booth (UFA)
- Higgins
- Hansen

Obviously not all play exactly the same style, and some are better than Raymond and some are worse. But they are all relatively comparable as a middle six veteran NHL winger, who is not a true defensive specialist/checker nor has true top six skill, in the same age range, and making 2 or 3 million per year. Half of these players have contracts for next year and most will be signed by training camp. It's not crazy to think that there is a market for Raymond.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

A lot of lineup projections show no Smid or no Raymond. Problem is if those guys can't win a job coming out of camp, what do you do with them? I don't see any teams paying a total of $7.6 million for two healthy scratches on the Flames. I suppose you can trade them if you give up prospects or picks alongside but is that we want?

Smid probably goes on LTIR.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by saxon

where oh where is capgeek when you need it?

rip

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by saXon

Where oh where is Capgeek when you need it?

Capgeek had Granlund's cap hit at $767,500.

http://web.archive.org/web/201412011...eek.com/flames

[Bourque's Twin]

The guaranteed Opening Day players are:
Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler, Bennett, Backlund, Frolik, Bouma, Jones, Colborne, Stajan, and probably Ferland. That's 11/12 starters.

That leaves Bollig, Shore, Granlund, Byron, and Jooris as the veterans who will fight over that last spot.

Not to forget, Poirier, Arnold and possibly others could make a serious push.

On defense, it's guaranteed that Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, Wideman, Russell, and Engelland will be in the NHL.

But, Wotherspoon, Smid (if he's healthy), and Nakladal will make a serious push to obtain minutes. Not to forget guys like Morrison and Culkin could be a surprise.

It's going to be a very interesting training camp and pre-season. No matter what, the Flames will have a lot of depth going into the playoffs (assuming they make it), and will be able to deal with injuries a lot better.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

The guaranteed Opening Day players are:
Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler, Bennett, Backlund, Frolik, Bouma, Jones, Colborne, Stajan, and probably Ferland. That's 11/12 starters.

Definitely Ferland. Unless you want to expose him to waivers so 29 other teams can get a shot at claiming him.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

The guaranteed Opening Day players are:
Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler, Bennett, Backlund, Frolik, Bouma, Jones, Colborne, Stajan, and probably Ferland. That's 11/12 starters.

That leaves Bollig, Shore, Granlund, Byron, and Jooris as the veterans who will fight over that last spot.

Not to forget, Poirier, Arnold and possibly others could make a serious push.

On defense, it's guaranteed that Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, Wideman, Russell, and Engelland will be in the NHL.

But, Wotherspoon, Smid (if he's healthy), and Nakladal will make a serious push to obtain minutes. Not to forget guys like Morrison and Culkin could be a surprise.

It's going to be a very interesting training camp and pre-season. No matter what, the Flames will have a lot of depth going into the playoffs (assuming they make it), and will be able to deal with injuries a lot better.

IIRC Byron may not be ready for the season opener so he could go on LTIR. Granlund can go down or if there is another injury, which is possible, he can stay up. That gives us 12 starters and two spares, except I think we forgot Raymond. Another injury or a deal or waivers needs to happen.

[thymebalm]

I don't think there is any rush to unload Raymond. He has as good a chance as anyone else to come into camp and claim a top-6 spot. Maybe he clicks with Frolik or finds some chemistry.

I know he's easy to write off after last season, but he -has- scored 50+ points before. He might have more where that and his 40+ point season came from. If he doesn't improve this season, it's not a cap we can carry for no good reason... I just think we should probably hang on and see what he kind of work he did over the off season

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

I don't think there is any rush to unload Raymond. He has as good a chance as anyone else to come into camp and claim a top-6 spot. Maybe he clicks with Frolik or finds some chemistry.

I know he's easy to write off after last season, but he -has- scored 50+ points before. He might have more where that and his 40+ point season came from. If he doesn't improve this season, it's not a cap we can carry for no good reason... I just think we should probably hang on and see what he kind of work he did over the off season

I'm not saying we get rid of Raymond right now. I brought him up because the poster I was responding to forgot him in his list of forwards. What is probably happening is that Treliving has talked to various other teams about some of our extra players and will make a move if and when needed. As you say, after or during training camp to see what we have would be best.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by getbak

Hockey's Cap has Bennett listed on the Flames roster, which is why their available cap space is lower than the others.

There's also discrepancy over Granlund's cap hit. NHL Numbers has it at $925,000 and Hockey's Cap and General Fanager have it at $767,500.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Capgeek had Granlund's cap hit at $767,500.

http://web.archive.org/web/201412011...eek.com/flames

Nhlnumbers just always adds on performance bonuses for its published salaries. You'll see the numbers on Nhlnumbers vs. other sites will almost always be higher for ELCs.

[FBI]

Picture coming a little bit clearer.
No Smid for starting lineup.
Raymond looking weak, maybe won't be there?
Poirier not impressing much so probably not going to be there.