Defending Marriage & the Family

[Sammie]

This article spells out very clearly what the Christian position is on the institution of marriage and the inclusion of same-sex marriage. In my opinion, it seems well reasoned and far from being homophobic or filled with hatred.

http://www.frc.org/index.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=WU03L06

There are two key reasons why the legal rights, benefits, and responsibilities of civil marriage should not be extended to same-sex couples. . .

(Two reasons are listed in the article.)

. . .So--what IS marriage, then?

Anthropologist Kingsley Davis has said, "The unique trait of what is commonly called marriage is social recognition and approval ... of a couple's engaging in sexual intercourse and bearing and rearing children." Marriage scholar Maggie Gallagher says that "marriage across societies is a public sexual union that creates kinship obligations and sharing of resources between men, women, and the children their sexual union may produce."

Canadian scholar Margaret A. Somerville says, "Through marriage our society marks out the relationship of two people who will together transmit human life to the next generation and nurture and protect that life."

Another Canadian scholar, Paul Nathanson (who is himself a homosexual), has said, "Because heterosexuality is directly related to both reproduction and survival, ... every human societ[y] has had to promote it actively . ... Heterosexuality is always fostered by a cultural norm" that limits marriage to unions of men and women. He adds that people "are wrong in assuming that any society can do without it." [emphasis in original]

[FlamesAddiction]

Hey, it's definitely a valid perspective, which is why I think it should be legal for Christians to get married.

I just don't think that they have the right to set the standard for everyone. Live and let live.

[Claeren]

The entire article is based on CHRISTIAN presumptions and definitions.

The ENTIRE point of the pro-gay-marriage side is that not everyone is a hardliner rightwing christian nor do they care at all what chrisitans think and as long as no one is harming anyone else it is a moot point.

What will be particularily interesting is when a Chinese, Indian, or Muslim (etc) population finally greatly outnumber the christian right in this country... how will they feel about minority rights and seperation between church and state then?

This is a VERY real problem France, Holland, and other European powers are facing right now....



Maybe a muslim majority could pass islamic law forbiding women to leave the house showing any skin? It IS a moral affront to the majority of that civilization to do otherwise, right? gah....

Claeren.

[arsenal]

here we go again...


:wwf:

[Red]

Are there any divorce laws in place for same sex couples?

The way they swing there better be some good ones.

For those that need more gay marriage discussions there's a lot of heated ones on the cgy-general newsgroup from shaw.

Interesting story I found there about the pedofile priests. 81% were gay, not that it makes it any better to take for a straight christian.
Story here
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[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Red@Dec 19 2004, 10:36 PM
Are there any divorce laws in place for same sex couples?

The way they swing there better be some good ones.

I'm sure it will be the same as with straight couples.

[Mike F]

I believe that horse is dead, Jim.

[arsenal]

Originally posted by Red@Dec 19 2004, 03:36 PM
The way they swing there better be some good ones.

What are you basing that on? There is exactly the same pattern in heterosexual relationships. The divorse rate among heterosexual couples is what? 50% (a few years ago). To say that someone is more promiscuous just becuase they are gay is just wrong.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

If we devoted a fraction of the attention and media coverage we give gay marriage to something actually worth all the attention and coverage (AIDS, world hunger, bringing the NHL back, whatever!), we'd all be alot better off.

I used to support gay marriage. Then I was against it because I thought just call it something else but leave all the same benefits marriage brings. Now? I couldn't care less. Somehow I get the inkling the world will still be turning and life will still manage to exist on this planet whether gays are allowed to marry or not...

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Red@Dec 19 2004, 03:36 PM

Interesting story I found there about the pedofile priests. 81% were gay, not that it makes it any better to take for a straight christian.
Story here

Interesting story.

I can't find a link but I've heard that 8 out of 10 dentists prefer Crest over other brands of toothpaste

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by fotze+Dec 19 2004, 06:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fotze @ Dec 19 2004, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Interesting story.

I can't find a link but I've heard that 8 out of 10 dentists prefer Crest over other brands of toothpaste

So 81% of pedophile priests are gay? Maybe true.

But more disturbing is that 100% of pedophile priests are Christian. More of a correlation there. [/b][/quote]
Heh, i've always said that some of these Christian churches should look to mend the boy touching ways of some of their priests before they start championing the values of traditional marriage for the rest of the world...

[Red]

Originally posted by arsenal+Dec 19 2004, 04:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Dec 19 2004, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Red@Dec 19 2004, 03:36 PM
The way they swing there better be some good ones.

What are you basing that on? There is exactly the same pattern in heterosexual relationships. The divorse rate among heterosexual couples is what? 50% (a few years ago). To say that someone is more promiscuous just becuase they are gay is just wrong. [/b][/quote]
There's some studies that suggest that homosexuals change their partners A LOT more than straights.
If that's true then it's only a matter of time before we see a lot of divorces. Hmm, now I can see why gays get so much legal help, it's a win - win for the lawyers
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[arsenal]

Originally posted by Red+Dec 19 2004, 07:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Red @ Dec 19 2004, 07:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

What are you basing that on? There is exactly the same pattern in heterosexual relationships. The divorse rate among heterosexual couples is what? 50% (a few years ago). To say that someone is more promiscuous just becuase they are gay is just wrong.

There's some studies that suggest that homosexuals change their partners A LOT more than straights.
If that's true then it's only a matter of time before we see a lot of divorces. Hmm, now I can see why gays get so much legal help, it's a win - win for the lawyers [/b][/quote]
If you look at who has done the study, they most likely will have connections with the religous right. If you where to look at percentages, you would probably see that the numbers are probably about the same in both lifestyles.

[Thunderball]

I look forward to seeing some of the legislation for gay divorce... its gonna be bedlam, especially when they have an adopted child... who's mommy and who's daddy in divorce proceedings??

[duncan]

Originally posted by Red@Dec 20 2004, 02:09 AM

There's some studies that suggest that homosexuals change their partners A LOT more than straights.
If that's true then it's only a matter of time before we see a lot of divorces. Hmm, now I can see why gays get so much legal help, it's a win - win for the lawyers

This study must have been done by Oral Roberts.

I am hetrosexual, I have been married twice, lived with a third woman, had too many 'partners'. My friend John was gay, had one 'life-partner' for 20 years. My co-worker Lori is gay and has had 3 girlfriends in her 48 years. My cousin Dwayne is straight, and at 34, has had so many partners he can't name them all. The homosexual promiscuity crap came out during the early years of AIDs.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Dec 19 2004, 09:28 PM
I look forward to seeing some of the legislation for gay divorce... its gonna be bedlam, especially when they have an adopted child... who's mommy and who's daddy in divorce proceedings??

Daddy one, and daddy two.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Dec 19 2004, 02:46 PM
Hey, it's definitely a valid perspective, which is why I think it should be legal for Christians to get married.

I just don't think that they have the right to set the standard for everyone. Live and let live.

Here here, bravo.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Dec 19 2004, 08:28 PM
I look forward to seeing some of the legislation for gay divorce... its gonna be bedlam, especially when they have an adopted child... who's mommy and who's daddy in divorce proceedings??

What a great reason not to legislate someting, incovenience. What do you care are you a lawmaker?

[Superfraggle]

Originally posted by Flame On+Dec 19 2004, 10:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Dec 19 2004, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunderball@Dec 19 2004, 08:28 PM
I look forward to seeing some of the legislation for gay divorce... its gonna be bedlam, especially when they have an adopted child... who's mommy and who's daddy in divorce proceedings??

What a great reason not to legislate someting, incovenience. What do you care are you a lawmaker? [/b][/quote]
To be fair, he just said he was looking forward to seeing it, not that it would be a reason not to do it. As far as I'm concerned, there's no good reason in my mind that gays should be denied the right to marry. If Christians don't want them to do it in a Christian church and don't want to recognize it as a CHRISTIAN marriage, that's up to them, but as far as the government's concerned marriage licenses are just a legal agreement between two parties and I don't see why they can't both be the same sex.

As for the argument that it shouldn't be allowed because it won't produce a child, the world has too many people as it is. Why not restrict marriage to the strongest, smartest and best looking, then?

Just a thought that occured to me...think there'll be a lot of cases like in Drew Carey when Mr. Wick pretends to be Drew's lover in order to get citizenship? I don't think that should stop them from legalizing gay marriage, but it's something to think about

[HOZ]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Dec 20 2004, 03:28 AM
I look forward to seeing some of the legislation for gay divorce... its gonna be bedlam, especially when they have an adopted child... who's mommy and who's daddy in divorce proceedings??

Hell the way the courts favour women in divorce cases here in Canada we could see some very interesting precidents!

"I'm sorry...neither of you are women. You must give up your child to adoption!"

"You must cut the baby in half since both of you are women...enjoy!"