How safe is Hartley's job?

[VladtheImpaler]

I think I am ready for the return of Mike Keenan.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

He won a Jack Adams last year.

The team has self destructed this year mostly because of goaltending and GM decisions (start with 3 goalies, too much dead weight signed like Raymond, etc.).

Hartley still continues to have a long leash.

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

How anybody still uses the Jack Adams award as an indicator of a coach's quality is beyond ridiculous.

Agreed...

Especially after Patrick Roy won the year prior.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Agreed...

Especially after Patrick Roy won the year prior.

Roy has the Avs in a Wildcard spot right now, but he's a terrible coach?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Roy has the Avs in a Wildcard spot right now, but he's a terrible coach?

Oh heck yeah

[N-E-B]

Hartley is safe for now, but I too think he has 20 games max next year. If they're not competing for a playoff spot, he's gone.

I also think the 3 goalies excuse is a convenient scapegoat for how bad the goalies and the team in front of them were.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I think I am ready for the return of Mike Keenan.

Hell yeah Vlad. I mean, the guy is still in the top 10 all-time for wins. That might even mean more than an Adams.

[browna]

I agree with a number of opinions here. I think he's a decent,but not near elite coach that impressed Burke in Burke’s first season, when the writing looked on the wall for him.

Brought over by the former GM as a last ditch effort for that person to save his job. But, similar to Keenan, some of the tactics that made him a playoff winning coach (never mind multiple HOF'ers on the winning roster) are a lot less relevant now. I tend to think his hard ass message and style is wearing thin after a couple years on the younger guys, and the x's and o's, as fans, is no more a clear indication (no other way for fans to measure them) than special teams, as they have been league worst most of the year and not great the rest of his time here, and that is telling.

His success last year has bought him time. In my opinion, he has a calender year. If the Flames are in the same spot next year at this time, no matter what roster changes occur or dont occur, he’s gone. Unlike his former GM buddy, he will be working again after,though.

His assistants aren't going anywhere until he does, for better or worse.

Outside chance that Burke moves on from Hartley in this off season, but it will only be if the ultimate replacement is suddenly, and unplanned, available, that Burke wouldve hired eventually for the team to take the next step, regardless of Hartley.

As an aside, I think when Burke thinks that it's time to take that next step with that next coach, and the team is in the hands of Treliving, that coach, and hopefully some more young guys in the roster and things are moving forward positively, Burke moves on too, his job complete. IMO.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Oh heck yeah

Ok, out of curiosity who isn't a bad coach?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Roy has the Avs in a Wildcard spot right now, but he's a terrible coach?

look at how many games they have played

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

If only Babcock had become available one year later..

Yeah, Toronto is doing great.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by browna

I agree with a number of opinions here. I think he's a decent,but not near elite coach that impressed Burke in Burke’s first season, when the writing looked on the wall for him.

Brought over by the former GM as a last ditch effort for that person to save his job. But, similar to Keenan, some of the tactics that made him a playoff winning coach (never mind multiple HOF'ers on the winning roster) are a lot less relevant now. I tend to think his hard ass message and style is wearing thin after a couple years on the younger guys, and the x's and o's, as fans, is no more a clear indication (no other way for fans to measure them) than special teams, as they have been league worst most of the year and not great the rest of his time here, and that is telling.

His success last year has bought him time. In my opinion, he has a calender year. If the Flames are in the same spot next year at this time, no matter what roster changes occur or dont occur, he’s gone. Unlike his former GM buddy, he will be working again after,though.

His assistants aren't going anywhere until he does, for better or worse.

Outside chance that Burke moves on from Hartley in this off season, but it will only be if the ultimate replacement is suddenly, and unplanned, available, that Burke wouldve hired eventually for the team to take the next step, regardless of Hartley.

As an aside, I think when Burke thinks that it's time to take that next step with that next coach, and the team is in the hands of Treliving, that coach, and hopefully some more young guys in the roster and things are moving forward positively, Burke moves on too, his job complete. IMO.

Burke was hired for continuity in hockey ops, rather than having a revolving door or managers

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok, out of curiosity who isn't a bad coach?

For me there is 3 tiers

Top Coaches - Coaches other teams would love to get
D. Sutter, Quenneville, Julien, Trotz, Babcock, Tippett, Peters, Ruff, Cooper, Vigneault, Hitchcock, Laviolette, Boudreau are all good coaches.

Average Tier - They would be fired, no one will miss a beat but they will re-surface in a ####ty job again
Bylsma, Hartley, Roy, McLellan, Gallant, Maurice, Desjardins, DeBoer, Cameron, Capuano, Therrien, Tortorella

New Comers
Blashill, Hynes, Sullivan, Hakstol, Torchetti
Blashill, Hynes and Sullivan look really good so far.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

For me there is 3 tiers

Top Coaches - Coaches other teams would love to get
D. Sutter, Quenneville, Julien, Trotz, Babcock, Tippett, Peters, Ruff, Cooper, Vigneault, Hitchcock, Laviolette, Boudreau are all good coaches.

Average Tier - They would be fired, no one will miss a beat but they will re-surface in a ####ty job again
Bylsma, Hartley, Roy, McLellan, Gallant, Maurice, Desjardins, DeBoer, Cameron, Capuano, Therrien, Tortorella

New Comers
Blashill, Hynes, Sullivan, Hakstol, Torchetti
Blashill, Hynes and Sullivan look really good so far.

Hitch is a disappointing playoff coach. Three consecutive first round exits with that team is not top tier coaching.

LA, Dallas, Carolina, Arizona, and Boston all missed the playoffs last season from your top tier as well.

[Erick Estrada]

I would say after Babcock and McLellan that Hartley is the safest bet to come back over Desjardins, Maurice, Cameron, Therrien who IMO all have a very good chance of being fired. It's kind of crazy how much of a tire fire the Canadian teams are this season.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

For me there is 3 tiers

Top Coaches - Coaches other teams would love to get
D. Sutter, Quenneville, Julien, Trotz, Babcock, Tippett, Peters, Ruff, Cooper, Vigneault, Hitchcock, Laviolette, Boudreau are all good coaches.

Average Tier - They would be fired, no one will miss a beat but they will re-surface in a ####ty job again
Bylsma, Hartley, Roy, McLellan, Gallant, Maurice, Desjardins, DeBoer, Cameron, Capuano, Therrien, Tortorella

New Comers
Blashill, Hynes, Sullivan, Hakstol, Torchetti
Blashill, Hynes and Sullivan look really good so far.

The bolded selections give me a headache. What are your qualifications for a good and bad coach? Seems like you're all over the map here. No way is Gallant an average coach. He's probably the single biggest reason the Panthers have turned things around over the last couple of seasons. They were abysmal before he arrived.

That's not even going into the Hartley discussion, but I still believe he's one of the better coaches in the league, although not in the highest tier.

For me, it's a list of a few guys that are exceptional no matter where they go:

Quenneville, Trotz, Sutter, Babcock (recent results for the Leafs notwithstanding)

Then there's the main group of coaches. Most of them are capable of winning given a decent lineup without holes. That's pretty much every head coach in the league. If they get fired and hired somewhere else, they usually have success for a decent amount of time relative to the talent on their teams.

Then the bottom of the list full of guys that are the main culprit for the lack of success with the team, and you see it happen in more than one place:

Tortorella, Maurice, Therrien, De Boer (despite the Sharks success this year, he has a track record of driving teams into the ground: Devils, Panthers).

Won't comment on the coaches in their first year or two as a head coach in the NHL.

[Envitro]

Based on everything that I've heard, and the Fan Forum last night, he's 100% the right man for the job. I'm pretty sure he's safe as any coach can be (outside of Babcock).

[ricardodw]

Hartley appears be better coaching players he can not threaten with financial ruin.

last year the Flames were loaded with players that were not financially secure for life.

Colborne, Bouma, Byron, Jooris, Diaz, Granlund, Backlund, Ferland, Schlemko and even Monahan and Gaudreau all would have to get some other jobs after hockey if Hartley messed with them ruined their careers. He was in a position to severely limit their future earnings,

In his first year (disaster in standings) and now again this year he has a team that is getting paid to the max of the cap

This year the scales have tipped. The Flames are a team with most of the players who are financially secure for life. The list of Flames that are not guaranteed at least 10M in career earnings is really short.

Guys on new huge (for them) contracts are:

Hamilton, Frolik, Gio, Backlund, Bouma are all on big new contracts that will give them more career hockey earnings than Hartley.