How safe is Hartley's job?

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Too lazy to Google but Burke's moves off the top of my head.

-Firing Feaster and Weisbrod
-Trading Reto Berra for a 2nd
-Not trading Mike Cammalleri
-Hurting Sven Baertschi's feelings
-Hiring Brad Treliving

Seems like a big bunch of "meh" to me, unless you think Sven had superstar potential before Burke rustled his Jimmies by publicly telling him to play in all 3 zones.

-Stajan extension
-Russell extension

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

It is not Hartley's fault that Brad Treliving has failed to bring in the players required to compete in the Pacific division.

That's funny considering this roster made the playoffs last season and Treliving bolstered it over the summer by bringing in Hamilton and Frolik as well Hartley had the full services of Sam Bennett yet the team is worse than last year's less talented team. So you better be able to explain how Treliving has failed to bring in players required to compete in the Pacific division seeing a lesser roster last season was plenty good enough.

I'm calling a spade a spade here in that Hartley has had a bad season as head coach from historically bad special teams to horrendous defensive play.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's funny considering this roster made the playoffs last season and Treliving bolstered it over the summer by bringing in Hamilton and Frolik as well Hartley had the full services of Sam Bennett yet the team is worse than last year's less talented team. So you better be able to explain how Treliving has failed to bring in players required to compete in the Pacific division seeing a lesser roster last season was plenty good enough.

I'm calling a spade a spade here in that Hartley has had a bad season as head coach from historically bad special teams to horrendous defensive play.

Last season was a improbable occurrence. All the last minute goals and comebacks are not normal. They won 10 of their 40 something wins against lowly Edmonton and Phoenix.

I don't know how else do explain last year.

[Tinordi]

Treliving is very safe.

Sure the goaltending isn't great. That's what happens when you have nothing in the pipeline and don't want to overpay on the trade market for an unproven or mediocre goaltender. Is it Treliving's fault and Ortio isn't an NHL goalie or that he didn't want to overpay for Jones or Talbot?

[blender]

Kind of wish they had overpayed for Jones...

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's funny considering this roster made the playoffs last season and Treliving bolstered it over the summer by bringing in Hamilton and Frolik as well Hartley had the full services of Sam Bennett yet the team is worse than last year's less talented team. So you better be able to explain how Treliving has failed to bring in players required to compete in the Pacific division seeing a lesser roster last season was plenty good enough.

I'm calling a spade a spade here in that Hartley has had a bad season as head coach from historically bad special teams to horrendous defensive play.

Last season was a blip on the radar, Having career years from majority of the team while getting incredible puck luck led to the playoffs. As well as horrible luck with his goalies this year. Bizarre year.

I think Hartley will have another year back at HC, if the results aren't there next season then I would expect a coaching change.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Burke on the other hand, should leave ASAP. It's amazing how much damage he did during his short time as GM. I also hope his awful amateur evaluation skills don't affect out scouting.

Care to elaborate on the damage Burke has done because I can't think of any long term effects.

[Red Menace]

I'd say he has about 12 months...if the team is struggling again next year at this time, he might be shown the door....

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Last season was a blip on the radar, Having career years from majority of the team while getting incredible puck luck led to the playoffs. As well as horrible luck with his goalies this year. Bizarre year.

I think Hartley will have another year back at HC, if the results aren't there next season then I would expect a coaching change.

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Last season was a improbable occurrence. All the last minute goals and comebacks are not normal. They won 10 of their 40 something wins against lowly Edmonton and Phoenix.

I don't know how else do explain last year.

So in other words Hartley isn't really coach of the year material seeing it was a "blip on the radar", "improbable" and due to "incredible puck luck". That means we have to look at Hartley's other three seasons which have been amongst the worst in franchise history because if last season doesn't count then Hartley probably should be fired immediately after the end of the season.

It is what it is in that the GM made the team better but the head coach couldn't get it to work coming off a promising season where this "incredible puck luck" team won a playoff series.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So in other words Hartley isn't really coach of the year material seeing it was a "blip on the radar", "improbable" and due to "incredible puck luck". That means we have to look at Hartley's other three seasons which have been amongst the worst in franchise history because if last season doesn't count then Hartley probably should be fired immediately after the end of the season.

It is what it is in that the GM made the team better but the head coach couldn't get it to work coming off a promising season where this "incredible puck luck" team won a playoff series.

I'm not saying last year shouldn't count, Hartley had a lot to do with the team playing so well. The blip on the radar may have been the wrong word but he's done fairly well with the teams presented to him, he came aboard when the Flames were dismantling the team and right into a rebuild. IMO the culture he brought aboard with the club is worth more then what most people place on a coach.

[wingmaker]

Most coaches get a mulligan. This year is Hartley's mulligan. There are enough other factors that can be pointed to beyond coaching that it is reasonable to give him a pass: terrible goal tending for much of the year, very little production from some key veteran players, Hamilton taking half a season to adjust to the system.

Next year, no excuses. Even injuries. Hartley better have this team humming out of training camp. And part of that is on Treliving to improve the goaltending and solidify the offence. But if the team doesn't start the year well, I think Hartley's gone quite quickly.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by blender

Kind of wish they had overpayed for Jones...

or Talbot.

[dissentowner]

Firing Hartley would be a mistake of epic proportions. He is an elite coach. If Hartley got the axe, Montreal would fire Therrien so fast you couldn't even blink and hire Hartley.
Next year the Habs would be a serious SC contender.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Firing Hartley would be a mistake of epic proportions. He is an elite coach. If Hartley got the axe, Montreal would fire Therrien so fast you couldn't even blink and hire Hartley.
Next year the Habs would be a serious SC contender.

Huh? Elite. No

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Huh? Elite. No

A SC ring and a Jack Adams disagree with you. Not to mention taking a Flames team that was predicted to be in the McDavid sweepstakes into the 2nd rnd of the playoffs.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

A SC ring and a Jack Adams disagree with you. Not to mention taking a Flames team that was predicted to be in the McDavid sweepstakes into the 2nd rnd of the playoffs.

And then took a Flames team that was projected to be 2nd or 3rd in the Pacific into the lottery sweepstakes.

[polak]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

A SC ring and a Jack Adams disagree with you. Not to mention taking a Flames team that was predicted to be in the McDavid sweepstakes into the 2nd rnd of the playoffs.

Yes and now he has no answer to teams playing hockey in the neutral zone.

[flamesfan55]

I think it depends on who is available as a replacement. There is no point to fire a coach on a rebuilding team if there isn't a suitable replacement available.

[polak]

Originally Posted by flamesfan55

I think it depends on who is available as a replacement. There is no point to fire a coach on a rebuilding team if there isn't a suitable replacement available.

Just cause there's no ex-NHL coach that everyone loves available, doesn't mean there is no suitable replacement. Even Scotty Bowman got his first shot some where.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And then took a Flames team that was projected to be 2nd or 3rd in the Pacific into the lottery sweepstakes.

Who exactly projected that? The only people foolish enough to project an upward trend like that are people who were fooled by our clearly unsustainable style of play last season and who aren't patient enough to handle a 5 year rebuild. At minimum, that's how long this thing will take. We are halfway through. Are fans patient enough to wait that long? Evidently, not everyone. Anything quicker then that is pure gravy.

Rebuilding suck. Losing is expected. The GM and head coach ALWAYS take the heat when the team is losing. But rebuilds are all about short term pain for long term gain. There should absolutely zero expectation of being division contenders for the foreseeable future, let alone annual playoff contenders.

We're in this for the long haul folks. I'm of the opinion that Hartley's job is safe, until upper management feels we are ready to take the next step and another coach who is available is deemed to be a better fit.