How safe is Hartley's job?

[schmaaadm]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think he will get one more season but at the same time I wouldn't be shocked if he was fired or at least one of his assistants gets a pink slip. Finishing 30th in PK and PP is a dubious distinction and possibly someone walks the plank for that. I see Burke sitting in his booth and I wonder how long he will be able to handle watching this team's poor defensive zone coverage. He's not the boss but he's got input. You just never know.

Agree 100%. Hartley is a great coach, but seems to be stubborn or set in his ways. He was able to get the most out of the team last year by pushing everyone to their limits and using a system that works for our smaller, speedy guys by scoring on the rush. It seems like everyone has adjusted to our play and Hartley won't make any changes. There is no excuse for our special teams this year.

[GirlySports]

yeah Treviling needs to find a goalie.Hartley deserves at least another year.. there are no good coaches out there.. who you gonna call?

[SHOGUN]

Too many holes to fill in the team... don't think Hartley is the main problem. Special teams/goaltending imo is the reason why the Flames are doing poorly compared to last year.

[ScorchyScorch]

If Gelinas is in charge of the special teams, he should've been gone months ago. Hate to say it cause I love the guy, but 30th/30th is simply not acceptable for any team, even if they're rebuilding.

[Da_Chief]

Some potential candidates imo.

Scott Niedermayer - Assistant coach in Anaheim for last 3 years, has done well to develop a good young defence. He might want to wait out for a head coaching opportunity in Anaheim.

Doug Weight - Assistant in Brooklyn since 2011 also is the AGM. Isles have developed good young forward the last few years. He also might wait out for a chance at GM or HC in Brooklyn.

Doug Houda - Assistant under Claude Julien and others staff for almost 10 years. Known to teach defence he could finally look to move on.

Philippe Boucher - Long time NHL dman is the head man for Quebec Remparts, handling both GM and head coaching duties. He's done well in the role.

Mike Kitchen - Long time assistant only had one opportunity to be the head man before in St.Louis, when they were getting ready to re-build. He's learned from the best, Quenville, Burns etc. Much respected, right now with the Hawks.

Guy Boucher - Got his opportunity in Tampa but got fired, then got fired by his Swiss team too. Maybe too much baggage with him. Was thought to be an excellent coach.

Adam Oates - He's been and assistant, head coach and co-head coach. Well respected and hopefully he's learned a few more things the last few years.

John Stevens - Associate coach in LA, is said to be Sutter's replacement when he's done. Kings have denied teams who wanted to interview him in the past.

My top 3 would be:
1. John Stevens
2. Adam Oates
3. Scott Neidermayer

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ward was paid by the Flames and was flat out defying instructions from above WRT "The System" yet was kept around until he was off the payroll. It's relevant because that is excess "reason" to fire a farm team coach.

Source?

[bucksmasher]

Medium rare

[united]

I think he'll definitely be here to start next year regardless of what happens the next couple months.

As others said, no coach can really overcome replacement level goaltending (or worse). What are you supposed to do when most other teams' backup goalies would be better options than your starter? The Flames are dead last in save percentage.
Every 4-goal change in differential is worth about 1.5 points in the standings. With a league-average starter, the Flames are right in the wild card mix. With a starter in the 8-12 range, the Flames are competing with the Sharks and Ducks.

That said, while every decision last season seemed to work, there has been some dubious choices this season that have backfired:
- Losing a good do-it-all utility player like Byron for free to juggle three bad goalies. This obviously won't happen again but what a ridiculous situation.
- Love affairs - which all coaches are guilty of to an extent - with players like Colborne and Russell. Hand fed golden opportunities yet delivering poor results. Next season these types of players need a shorter leash.
- Related to the above, hesitation to play other players despite good results. Bennett, Backlund, Jooris, Frolik usually deliver yet were held back for so long for some reason.
- Brandon Bollig period. I was on board with his experiment but it become evident early on I and others underestimated the effect of playing on the Blackhawks. Semi-useful with them, useless with us and takes poor penalties to make it worse.
- Special team:

I think Mr. Hartley will take a look back and learn from a season where so many things went wrong.

[Parallex]

He'll get to finish out the year. Don't know about next... could see it go either way. I'd rather see a new coach personally.

[killer_carlson]

Hartley's job is safer than Trelivings.

Both are very safe.

[#-3]

My guess is there is allot of acceptance of the situation this year and he will start next season. But if they haven't held a playoff spot for a good chuck of the season come next years all star break, it will quickly become very unsafe.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Source?

I could be mistaken but I think it was a Conroy interview. But watching both teams it was obvious that after the first month of the season Ward went back to his old style of play because the personnel they had in Abbotsford did not fit the system Hartley played and the goaltending was being badly hung out to dry.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Hartley's job is safer than Trelivings.

Both are very safe.

ok, no it's not. Hartley isn't even Treliving's hire. GM's at least get to run their own guy before their job is in on the line.

[1qqaaz]

I could see both the assistant coach, goalie coach, and associate coach being fire before Hartley, since the special teams and goal-tending have been among the largest of the problems this year.

I think Hartley is a good coach overall, even though he's made mistake this year. I think Treliving will also be a pretty good GM. Teams with continuity tend to be more successful. So even though neither of them have been great this year, I hope they stay around.

Burke on the other hand, should leave ASAP. It's amazing how much damage he did during his short time as GM. I also hope his awful amateur evaluation skills don't affect out scouting.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I could see both the assistant coach, goalie coach, and associate coach being fire before Hartley, since the special teams and goal-tending have been among the largest of the problems this year.

I think Hartley is a good coach overall, even though he's made mistake this year. I think Treliving will also be a pretty good GM. Teams with continuity tend to be more successful. So even though neither of them have been great this year, I hope they stay around.

Burke on the other hand, should leave ASAP. It's amazing how much damage he did during his short time as GM. I also hope his awful amateur evaluation skills don't affect out scouting.

Too lazy to Google but Burke's moves off the top of my head.

-Firing Feaster and Weisbrod
-Trading Reto Berra for a 2nd
-Not trading Mike Cammalleri
-Hurting Sven Baertschi's feelings
-Hiring Brad Treliving

Seems like a big bunch of "meh" to me, unless you think Sven had superstar potential before Burke rustled his Jimmies by publicly telling him to play in all 3 zones.

[devo22]

Also traded Greg Nemisz for Kevin Westgarth I believe. Burke really didn't do much as a GM, no idea what "damage" 1qqaaz means.

[the_only_turek_fan]

It is not Hartley's fault that Brad Treliving has failed to bring in the players required to compete in the Pacific division.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by nik-

ok, no it's not. Hartley isn't even Treliving's hire. GM's at least get to run their own guy before their job is in on the line.

Not when:

The coach wins coach of the year with the roster you assembled;
HNIC and other pundits openly state that you cannot build a team around the goaltending that has been assembled (Adam Oates as part of the Saturday night panel)
The goaltending which is failing is one of the highest priced tandems in the league

Treliving would have no credibility if he were to fire Hartley in these circumstances.

As I've said, both are safe. The spotlight is squarely on Treliving over the next 2 weeks though.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Not when:

The coach wins coach of the year with the roster you assembled;
HNIC and other pundits openly state that you cannot build a team around the goaltending that has been assembled (Adam Oates as part of the Saturday night panel)
The goaltending which is failing is one of the highest priced tandems in the league

Treliving would have no credibility if he were to fire Hartley in these circumstances.

As I've said, both are safe. The spotlight is squarely on Treliving over the next 2 weeks though.

Yup. Not to mention the Flames are paper thin up front. Too many small players.

[Toonage]

Darryl Sutter's contract with L.A. is up after this season is it not? Just saying...

So long as he doesn't take over GM duties.