How safe is Hartley's job?

[Split98]

Pretty safe barring more setbacks next year.

Last year could have been an aberration, for sure. But it was a damn impressive aberration - and one that demonstrated how well they'll do under him.

This year has been sloppy, and left him to pick up the pieces as they've fallen. Soon as we finally have reliable goaltending, he's injured. Our top-line vet finally starts putting it together 2 weeks before he's traded. Our #3 D has to 180 his entire game to work with a new system. There's a lot here, and I don't think a lot of other coaches could to much better.

Has there been any merit to him losing the room? Or just speculation based on results?

As far as the consistent (valid) complaints of him not adjusting to opposing teams, I have to wonder if it's largely due to lack of trust in his players. Maybe he wants to put focus on ONE system and get that right before he starts complicating things with adjusting to the teams.

Watch players like Brodie and Backlund. They seem to play differently against other teams. Maybe certain players are coached to what their abilities can carry.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Troy Ward, former AHL coach

Yeah I knew that but thought we were talking about former Calgary Flame coaches.

[Split98]

I think along with the assistants in charge of special teams, Jordan Sigalet the goalie coach and Dave Paskevich the Mental Development coach have to be evaluated here. Ramo almost saved Sigalet from scrutiny this year, and there's something really of with the team this year

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Yeah I knew that but thought we were talking about former Calgary Flame coaches.

Ward was paid by the Flames and was flat out defying instructions from above WRT "The System" yet was kept around until he was off the payroll. It's relevant because that is excess "reason" to fire a farm team coach.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

The assistants who run the PP and PK on the other hand....

They report to Hartley and therefore are his responsibility. Hartley takes all the blame for his inability to adjust the game plan when teams clog up the neutral zone. How many games have we had to sit through them failing to gain the zone for periods at a time? Its Hartleys job to figure out a way to fix that and he hasn't. His line up choices, especially who he has out in the dying minutes of games, are also very questionable. Having Mason Raymond out on the ice when they're down by a goal with a minute left should be an instant firing.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

A look at recent coaches:

Playfair - Demoted, but not fired
Keenan - One Year Remaining On Contract when fired.
Brent Sutter - Played Out Contract
Ward - Played Out Contract
Hartley - One Year Remaining On Contract after this season

My money is on Hartley playing out his contract barring another horrible October.

Things that could even get him another contract would be:

2017 Flames are >50% possession (Close/SA)
Youth like Bennett, Monahan, Hamilton, Kulak, Poirier, Jankowski, Granlund grow into better contributors
GAA under 2.00

Yeah Hartley is heads and shoulders above Brent Sutter, so I can't see Hartely getting worse treatment.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Safe.

If the Flames don't figure things out by this time next year, that's a different story.

Regression from Hudler, Wideman, Ramo, Bouma, and Hiller is the entire reason why the Flames are not in the spot San Jose is.

If the Flames address the goaltending and add another scorer or two in the offseason and the Flames are still terrible, then they probably move on from Hartley.

I want to believe this is a case of Hartley not getting enough out of his team rather than half of the team regressing.

He's made countless questionable roster and in-game decisions this year. Last season he scratched Wideman 5 games into the season and afterwards he was a different player. This season he's been even worse than the start of last year and hasn't been scratched once.

It's starting to look like Hartley has too much loyalty towards his veteran players. We're a rebuilding team and frankly I don't think Hartley's values and roster decisions align with what this team needed to be doing this season.

I'll cap this rant off by addressing the special teams (something the coaches haven't been able to address all season). Hartley himself mentioned last year that you need good special teams to win games in today's NHL. Then he makes the dumbest PP combinations you could possibly come up with and absolutely head-scratching PK system. It's only now that Wideman is off the PP that it's starting to click. Not to mention going from the least penalized team one year to one of the most penalized teams.

[DazzlinDino]

BT himself said he doesn't make decisions based on reactions, and looks at the whole picture. I doubt BT is concerned about Hartley's job he knows he is not dealing with a full deck of cards. I bet we see some changes to the overall team supporting cast as they move forward on the rebuild.

My guess that with the right players Hartley improves the team and gets an extension.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I want to believe this is a case of Hartley not getting enough out of his team rather than half of the team regressing.

He's made countless questionable roster and in-game decisions this year. Last season he scratched Wideman 5 games into the season and afterwards he was a different player. This season he's been even worse than the start of last year and hasn't been scratched once.

It's starting to look like Hartley has too much loyalty towards his veteran players. We're a rebuilding team and frankly I don't think Hartley's values align with what this team needed to be doing this season.

I'll cap this rant off by addressing the special teams (something the coaches haven't been able to address all season). Hartley himself mentioned last year that you need good special teams to win games in today's NHL. Then he makes the dumbest PP combinations you could possibly come up with and absolutely head-scratching PK system. It's only now that Wideman is off the PP that it's starting to click. Not to mention going from the least penalized team one year to one of the most penalized teams.

What about Ferland, Bennett, Gaudreau, Granlund and Monahan? Raymond, Jones, and Stajan have been scratched at times during the season. I don't think he's favoured veterans outside of the early season decisions, but that was when the Flames were still a playoff bound team.

I think we'll have to wait and see how he treats the roster following the deadline.

[MarkGio]

Honestly, his roster decisions could be a result of being a team player within the organization. If Trevy tells Hartley that Wideman is on the trade block, then maybe Hartley has been putting Wideman on the PP and made him alternate captain because that helps Trevy build a better team - just so long as it isn't detrimental to winning a hockey game. In turn, Hartley keeps his job.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Split98

Watch players like Brodie and Backlund. They seem to play differently against other teams. Maybe certain players are coached to what their abilities can carry.

I think part of it is just experience. For example the two guys you named developed originally in systems that were unlike Hartley's system. So they can take the good of those other systems and apply it when appropriate. On the other hand a guy like Monahan, who has only ever known Hartley's system, could benefit greatly from a different voice in his ear, a different perspective. Sometimes "systems" are just a form of good habit-building.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Not to mention going from the least penalized team one year to one of the most penalized teams.

As of today, we are the third least penalized team.

[Sandman]

I have a feeling that if Dave Tippett was in the market for a new job, Hartley would soon be out even if the team was having a good season....

[Enoch Root]

I would agree with most that he is probably safe until at least 30-40 games into next season, except for one thing:

his passive defensive playing style.

It has to be KILLING Treliving and Burke, watching the team play so passively and never hit or clear guys from in front of the net.

In fairness, the team is pretty small and Hartley is playing a style that suits them, to an extent. But I would guess that the guys upstairs want the team to be a whole lot harder to play against.

[2ArmBands]

For me personally I evaluate him based on the performance of the young upcoming core players. Given the stage the team is in the rebuild I think the performance of players like Monahan, Johnny, Bennett, Hamilton, Brodie etc.. should be the franchises main focus for now and in the short future. As long as these guys continue to develop nicely you are likely right on track with with your long term plan.

With that being said I think he's safe. I don't doubt that he was on a fairly short leash once Feaster left but I would think management is satisfied with the development to date of their most prized assets.

[CSharp]

Not sure why Hartley's coaching abilities are even questioned when the Flames miraculously went from a rebuild team to a bubble playoff team and back down to a rebuild team within the span of 3 years. The worse thing that happened to the Flames was that the team got everyone's hope so high that some are thinking of cleaning house already? WTF, it's not like the Flames are even close to having all the right pieces of their lineups all figured out. The main issue they're having from the start of the rebuild is that they don't have much to build on and their size really suck. Realistically, I'd say another 3 more years of building the talent pool and making sure they acquire some size - front and back. As for Hartley, he's as good a coach any team can get to do the rebuilding of this team.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I have a feeling that if Dave Tippett was in the market for a new job, Hartley would soon be out even if the team was having a good season....

Oh God, No! Tippet, Hitchcock, and any coach that preach neutral zone trap will bore you to death before cancer kills you.

[rollie619]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I have a feeling that if Dave Tippett was in the market for a new job, Hartley would soon be out even if the team was having a good season....

Burke dosen't want a boring coach. I would imagine he still has some input even if BT truly has final say.

[Erick Estrada]

I think he will get one more season but at the same time I wouldn't be shocked if he was fired or at least one of his assistants gets a pink slip. Finishing 30th in PK and PP is a dubious distinction and possibly someone walks the plank for that. I see Burke sitting in his booth and I wonder how long he will be able to handle watching this team's poor defensive zone coverage. He's not the boss but he's got input. You just never know.

[Ashasx]

I think if the Flames start poorly next season like they did this one, Hartley will be gone before December.

But I don't think he'll be fired during this off-season.

Plus, I'm not a big fan of the other options available right now.

[Street Pharmacist]

If Calgary had league average goaltending, they'd have 26 less goals against and have a positive differential, along with probably 3/4 more wins. Basically where they were last year.


They'd be better if they had a better coach though. Hartley's rope a dope style is far too prime to bouts of up and down play