My issue is you were quick to point out "hey no one is actively saying to trade Gaudreau" while pretty much doing just that. You're starting to beat a drum about it.
Im openly toying with the idea. Trying to talk about it. Am I saying I want him traded? No. not at all, but I am going through ideas where it may make the team better.
__________________ "Everybody's so desperate to look smart that nobody is having fun anymore" -Jackie Redmond
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Should have canned that moron and his staff at Christmas like over 70% of CP was asking for. Then at least we would know what we have today rather than setting up Marc Savard part 2.
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No that's not my point. My point is that I don't think he's a good enough all around player to be our top forward. So the question is do you have someone in the pipeline that WILL be that, can you win without it? If the answer to the first is NO and the answer to the second is also NO you have to figure out how to solve that.
These are not the only two options.
I think Hamilton can get you that top C.
With others carrying more of the weight up front, Gaudreau can be utilized the way he should be.
Im openly toying with the idea. Trying to talk about it. Am I saying I want him traded? No. not at all, but I am going through ideas where it may make the team better.
You've been going through the ideas for weeks. Just saying, if you keep going on and on about it, it starts to come across as actively wanting to see him traded.
That's fine in and of itself. You can suggest whatever you want. But you can't turn around and claim no one is actively trying to suggest trading him when that's - in effect - exactly what you're doing.
The closest situation this reminds me of is Philly years ago deciding they couldn't win with Carter and Richards. So they dealt them both and did well in that deal (Voracek and Simmonds) though it is worth noting the Kings DID win particularly with Carter.
But that's the type of chemistry change type of deal I think we are speculating on here. They are rare though.
Carter and Richards were traded because of off ice issues. The concern was more that their trade value would decrease over time. The Flyers made the right choice.
Carter cleaned up his act, Richards did not.
If Johnny is moved, it would likely be because of similar concerns.
All this talk by Francis that the team should be in the playoffs but outside of four players the players lack investment in the team kind of absolves the coaching staff. If you really don't believe in the coaching staff how invested can you be? You think fans were the only people questioning powerplay deployment, player usage, strategy, etc? You don't think the players were getting the feeling they weren't being put in position to do their best? The way the team collectively failed down the stretch doesn't point to a handful of players lacking investment. It shows a team that simply didn't have confidence that what they were doing was going to take them to the playoffs.
Has Troy Brouwer since day one ever looked like a player invested in anything since he signed that deal and put on the Flames jersey? Not to me and the GM gets all the credit for his addition. It's not as easy as assuming a player from another team is going to fit into your locker room and become any more invested than players you want to move out for lacking. He needs to be very careful here as I recall how much damage it caused the organization shipping out Marc Savard for peanuts because of a bad coach and I'm weary of history repeating and this team moving out their most talented players because of bad coaching. I just don't understand how 7 months back Treliving thought he had a playoff and maybe cup contender and all of a sudden he's questioning that because of a bad season. Surely he's been around long enough to know what Hamilton, Monahan, Gaudreau were all about by this stage. I really hope there's no knee jerk reactions as we have been questioning the heart of the Flames since 2007 and the only common denominator to me over that time is substandard coaching because the players have changed but the results have not. Lets see what a Flames team can do with actual above average coaching for once before we start blaming another generation of players.
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Gaudreau has dominated every single level of hockey he has played at
He has been 1st in scoring on his team everywhere with only three exceptions in his entire career (rookie year in NHL and NCAA, and his first World Championship) where he was 2nd
He is the franchise and must be built around
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Oliver Kylington is the greatest and best player in the world
Well I can see the offseason has officially started. Since we're throwing out insane ideas like trading the superstar player who is performing and accounts for most of the team's offensive success, why not start a discussion about bringing Gulutzan back too?
I thought April fools was last week.
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A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
I think the Dubuqe fighting Saints, Boston College and Team USA would disagree with you.
If anything, the Flames need another player like Gaudreau. Kid is a winner and you can see his intensity on the ice. Does he sometimes turn the puck over or forget his defensive assignments? Yes but haven't you seen Gretzky, Mcdavid or Kane do the same thing?. in this day and age of speed and skill, you try and acquire as much if these types of players as you can, not trade them away.
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Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
You don't trade away a Phil Kessel caliber player unless you are tanking and set to do a total rebuild. Like Toronto.
Weber, Subban, Jones, Johansen, Seguin, Gaborik, Nash, Pronger, all traded by teams that weren't tanking and set to do a total rebuild. They weren't all great deals, but they were made with the intention of getting better.
Hockey trades may be rare, but they're still a thing.
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Except - ironically - the Kings won with those guys and Philly never won with the return they got for them.
Sure, but just because Philly hasn't won a Cup doesn't mean those weren't great deals for the Flyers. If Nashville never wins a Cup with Subban, will Weber-Subban be a bad trade?
I think Jiri's right that the closest parallel to what the Flames brass seems to be considering is the Flyer's remake. The only thing that scares me is the Flames pro scouting hasn't exactly proven to be stellar. I don't know how much confidence I have the Flames are astute enough to identify the Voraceks and Simmonds out there.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Francis saying some "players" didn't care if they won or lost, it was all about their stats ... he seemed to imply more than just goals and assists ... possession?
Thoughts?
Were they all trying to get high Corsi stats? That seems to be valued in some places.
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Originally Posted by Bingo
Jesus this site these days
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Originally Posted by Barnet Flame
He just seemed like a very nice person. I loved Squiggy.
I have a list of personnel I want gone.
Gully
Cameron
Sigalet
Ferland
Brouwer
Those guys for sure for sure I want gone and openly want them gone.
Player I can see being moved regardless of who they are Hamilton
Stone
Brodie
Backlund (Something about his interview the day he signed kind of set me back. He wasn't %100 certain he was going to be in Calgary the entire duration of his contract. Could have been him just being open minded about the business itself but he definitely was aware this isn't guaranteed to keep him in Calgary)
Folik
Who shouldn't be moved unless the price is right
Gaudreau
Monahan
Gio
Bennett
Janko
UNTOUCHABLE
Tkachuk
Even then thats a stretch because no one is safe ever. But yeah I'd lock Tkachuk in as untouchable.
The rest is what they are. Depth. Except Smith, he's a clear stop gap and I dont see him here beyond next season. I just hope we get one playoff run with him.
__________________ "Everybody's so desperate to look smart that nobody is having fun anymore" -Jackie Redmond
While I don't believe it's Johnny (my gut tells me it's Monahan)...
I really don't like the makeup of the team when our cornerstone is Johnny Hockey. He's extremely talented, but he's a Kent Nilsson. Magic Hands, but shows very little mental toughness, and disappears when we need him the most.
If... and that's a big IF if we can get a sizeable return on him, trading Johnny Hockey must be considered if he's the one Francis is talking about. Again, if it's that obvious, and the culture in the locker room is broken because of him.
