[Signing] Flames sign Brad Richardson (1 yr, $800k)

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The team needs bodies and needs guys that can play Sutter hockey. It's really a nothing move that is a result of having nothing ready on the farm. Just another move that makes an unlikeable team even more unlikeable.

Sounds like now is the time for you to jump ship then hoss. Why devote time to something if you find it so unlikeable ?

[RedHawk12]

Imagine being a prospect who can't beat out Richardson and Ritchie for a role. And then complaining that you aren't getting a fair chance in Calgary.

Good thing prospects don't have the mentality that many of you guys have.

[PepsiFree]

If I may, I have noticed some issues, and thought I might try to solve them:

Originally Posted by djsFlames

There are so many questions marks that I can't begin to strap myself into the optimism train yet.

Most skeptical I've felt coming out of an offseasoh in a while.

For this, I recommend going ahead and strapping yourself into the optimism train.

Pros:
- You enjoy the ride
- You feel happy
- You have fun

Cons
- You might be wrong later! Agh!

If you don’t? Well, you miss out on being an optimist about an entertainment product, which is really super fun. You miss out on just enjoying whatever and always having fun But you might be right now! Seems worth it! Or….?

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The team needs bodies and needs guys that can play Sutter hockey. It's really a nothing move that is a result of having nothing ready on the farm. Just another move that makes an unlikeable team even more unlikeable.

For this, I recommend going ahead and liking the team.

Pros:
- You enjoy the team
- You feel happy
- You have fun

Cons:
- You might be wrong later! Agh!

If you don’t? Well, that would be a huge waste of time, and people would start to question how lonely you’d have to be to visit a message board for a team you don’t even like just to have a conversation… but you might be right now! Seems worth it! Or…

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Nothing to get worked up about, just cements my fears that this year's version of the team is looking worse than last year's, and last year's sucked.

For this, I recommend going ahead and fearing absolutely nothing about a hockey team you watch for entertainment.

Pros:
- You enjoy the team
- You feel happy
- You have fun

Cons:
- You might be wrong later! Agh!

If you don’t? Well you end up being afraid things might happen instead of just enjoying the things that are happening for what they are, and when it comes to an entertainment product that seems… insane. But you might be right now! Seems worth it! Or…,

[flames_fan_down_under]

I think Richardson is a guy that works his tail off. Definitely a guy that will do what it takes to win.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I was hoping for more substantive change as well but not if that means selling the players they have for marginal return.
If you can't get much for Monahan because his season was SO bad then you are better to wait and see if he can rebound.
The Johnny situation puzzles me. I've been advocating to move him for some time but there doesn't even appear to be smoke there.

In order my preference would have been:
1. Re-build (not happening)
2. Making material changes to the team where they made hockey deals that could help them
3. Status quo
4. Trading off players for bad returns

What we got is something in between 2-3. Don't love it. But if #1 was off the table and they couldn't make #2 happen - it's better than #4.

Treliving has done well in trades where he auctions off a pending UFA or the player has expressed his wish to leave. Think Sven, Hamilton, Bennett, Neal, even Fox.

When not in those situations, he hasn’t been able to pull the trigger on moving roster players. It strikes me as a case of endowment effect but in any case, he seems to do better when there is a necessity to get a deal done.

Maybe we need Gaudreau or Tkachuk to tell him point blank they want out? There’s ample evidence from other deals that the rest of the league sees value in our players so I personally don’t believe #2 was impossible.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Imagine being a prospect who can't beat out Richardson and Ritchie for a role. And then complaining that you aren't getting a fair chance in Calgary.

Good thing prospects don't have the mentality that many of you guys have.

Veterans have the experience factor which helps, but the only way to get experience is to learn in the field. If you keep players in the AHL, they develop into AHLers. You need to give them some rope in the NHL if you want any hope of them turning into NHLers. Adding veterans that can technically outplay prospects isn’t alway in the long term best interests.

Good teams find a way to plug in their prospects because they have the strengths to overcome their mistakes, the Flames clearly not in that group.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There’s ample evidence from other deals that the rest of the league sees value in our players so I personally don’t believe #2 was impossible.

Sorry can you explain this? How do other deals prove that other teams see value in our players?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Sorry can you explain this? How do other deals prove that other teams see value in our players?

The deals Treliving has made, I should have said. When he has traded roster players, he has received decent value.

So I’m not buying that no one covets the players that are left. Now they’re probably not offering what Treliving wants, which gets me back to the endowment effect possibility.

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Veterans have the experience factor which helps, but the only way to get experience is to learn in the field. If you keep players in the AHL, they develop into AHLers. You need to give them some rope in the NHL if you want any hope of them turning into NHLers. Adding veterans that can technically outplay prospects isn’t alway in the long term best interests.

Good teams find a way to plug in their prospects because they have the strengths to overcome their mistakes, the Flames clearly not in that group.

So you're saying good teams that make the mistake of plugging in their prospects overcome those mistakes because they have other strengths?
Doesn't that mean that they made a mistake by plugging those prospects in when they shouldn't have?

[PeteMoss]

I think this and the Lewis signing in that - if we end up sucking, they are both 'winners' who will net you a draft pick at the trade deadline.

[Toonage]

Probably brought up already but heard an interview with Richardson on 960 yesterday afternoon. Apparently he's recovering from a broken ankle this past summer. So, 36 years old, bad ankle. Good stuff.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

So you're saying good teams that make the mistake of plugging in their prospects overcome those mistakes because they have other strengths?
Doesn't that mean that they made a mistake by plugging those prospects in when they shouldn't have?

No, it means that prospects make mistakes as they adjust to the NHL. We all learn from making mistakes. It’s an endless debate of what’s better for the prospect - first line in the AHL, vs 4th line in the NHL.

For example, with someone like Matthew Phillips. I doubt he is going to take the next step without seeing some NHL games. He has seen and done everything in the AHL level. That said, I’m sure there are going to be growing pains. It all comes down to what happens if the veteran and the prospect are roughly the same level. The prospect is better in flashes, but doesn’t have the consistency. I personally would love to have at least one roster spot a year for a (new) prospect to lose.

As for Richardson, it’s a depth signing. He can sit, be your 12/13th forward. Nothing to complain about really. I guess him and Lewis are the gate keepers. Hopefully they would be able to share their experience and succeed under Sutter.

[ricardodw]

Pronman (Athletic) put out his list of best players under 23

There were 196 players that Pronman thought were important. 22 year old Valmiki did not make the list.

The best under 23 player in the Flames Organization was the 96th overall Matthew Coronato, On a average team there were 3 players under 23 with a better rating than the Flames best guy. Zary comes in at 109 and Pelletier comes in at 174.

With close scrutiny (being on this forum and watching a Flames first round pick) I was advocating that Pelletier in D+3 should be NHL ready.

Pronman basically has another opinion.

The number of players in Pronman's list by team is

12 Los Angeles
11 Buffalo
10 Detroit
10 Ottawa
9 Carolina
9 New Jersey
9 NY Rangers
9 Vegas
8 Dallas
7 Anaheim
7 Colorado
7 Columbus
7 Minnesota
7 Nashville
6 Arizona
6 Florida
6 Montreal
6 Philadelphia
6 San Jose
6 Toronto
6 Vancouver
6 Winnipeg
5 Edmonton
4 St. Louis
3 Calgary
3 NY Islanders
3 Washington
2 Boston
2 Chicago
1 Seattle
1 Tampa Bay

Not only are the Flames short on quality they are short on Quantity.

Lewis and Richardson and Froese and Ritchie are stop-gaps that are on the Flames because the pipeline is empty.

The Flames picks in top 90

2017 - 2
2018 - 0
2019 - 2
2020 - 4
2021 - 4

3 out of 12

[GioforPM]

^^ Good for Pronman. Aside from that, who really cares?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ Good for Pronman. Aside from that, who really cares?

ricardodw cares.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's all up to Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund, Monahan, Coleman and Mangiapane. That won't change.

Unfortunately that's a massive problem given past failures of this group to rise to the occasion and now there's not a proper offensive defenseman to run the powerplay. I think I'm being extremely kind when I say this roster is middle of the road. I don't discount that Darryl will have them playing tight hockey but it's really hard to get excited about this edition of the Calgary Flames. I suppose this is what it feels like to be a Minnesota Wild fan.

[ComixZone]

Pronman's not really onto something new. We've discussed on here how the Flames were dead last in the league when it comes to picks made in the top-2 rounds during the 18/19/20 Drafts. Through those three drafts, we only collected Pelletier, Zary, and Kuznetsov.

Over those three drafts, here are the teams tied with us or near us:

3 Top-60 picks: Flames Bruins, Blue Jackets, Coyotes
4 Top-60 picks: Lightning, Penguins, Blues, Golden Knights, Predators, Stars, Canucks

The Coyotes and Blue Jackets have gone full-rebuild, and the Bruins have a good amount of success with the core they're trying to maintain...while we're maintaining a team that has accomplished absolutely nothing.

Treliving's deficit spending to accomplish absolutely zilch will hurt this team for years to come.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Ensuring that the roster is constructed with Sutter in mind is completely rationale. We should not be surprised.

The Flames now have three 30+ 4th line bums that no other team would want under contract and likely headed to full time roles this year. That in itself is surprising as you wouldn't think the GM of an NHL team would be that dense in this day and age. This move is merely the latest in a list of awful signings that further plug the teams bottom 6 up with limited skill set plugs with next to no future in the league.

Most of these bums will be lucky to provide any scoring, speed and skill to the team, putting even more pressure on the already questionable core talent. Worse yet, they will probably do the usual cycle of having a respectable camp only to dial it back down once they make the team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Pronman (Athletic) put out his list of best players under 23

There were 196 players that Pronman thought were important. 22 year old Valmiki did not make the list.

The best under 23 player in the Flames Organization was the 96th overall Matthew Coronato, On a average team there were 3 players under 23 with a better rating than the Flames best guy. Zary comes in at 109 and Pelletier comes in at 174.

With close scrutiny (being on this forum and watching a Flames first round pick) I was advocating that Pelletier in D+3 should be NHL ready.

Pronman basically has another opinion.

The number of players in Pronman's list by team is

12 Los Angeles
11 Buffalo
10 Detroit
10 Ottawa
9 Carolina
9 New Jersey
9 NY Rangers
9 Vegas
8 Dallas
7 Anaheim
7 Colorado
7 Columbus
7 Minnesota
7 Nashville
6 Arizona
6 Florida
6 Montreal
6 Philadelphia
6 San Jose
6 Toronto
6 Vancouver
6 Winnipeg
5 Edmonton
4 St. Louis
3 Calgary
3 NY Islanders
3 Washington
2 Boston
2 Chicago
1 Seattle
1 Tampa Bay

Not only are the Flames short on quality they are short on Quantity.

Lewis and Richardson and Froese and Ritchie are stop-gaps that are on the Flames because the pipeline is empty.

The Flames picks in top 90

2017 - 2
2018 - 0
2019 - 2
2020 - 4
2021 - 4

3 out of 12

Not a lot knew there to be honest.

We are all aware that the Flames didn't have top picks in the 2018 and 2019 drafts and that's starting to hurt.

Pronman's not a fan ... but guys like Bader, and Steve Kournianos have lauded the Flames for being sneaky good drafting despite the lack of picks.

Overall they don't have the blue chip guys that you either luck into or select in the top five, but from most reports they have a healthy move from a lot of drafted players towards more value since their selection date.

Nobody is making Calgary out to have the deepest system (though Bader has them 6th), but I'd put Pronman on the negative extreme. Truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The Flames now have three 30+ 4th line bums that no other team would want under contract and likely headed to full time roles this year. That in itself is surprising as you wouldn't think the GM of an NHL team would be that dense in this day and age. This move is merely the latest in a list of awful signings that further plug the teams bottom 6 up with limited skill set plugs with next to no future in the league.

Most of these bums will be lucky to provide any scoring, speed and skill to the team, putting even more pressure on the already questionable core talent. Worse yet, they will probably do the usual cycle of having a respectable camp only to dial it back down once they make the team.

Okay, first of all I'm not sure I would call Lucic a bum. He was a pretty decent contributor last year... If you didn't mean Lucic then I don't know who the 3rd bum is. Froese is AHL bound, and one or both of Lewis/Richardson will be the extra forward(s) on most nights.

I really don't see how these guys are any worse or different than Nordstrom/Simon/Rinaldo. Even if you look a couple of years back are Rieder and Jankowski that much better? The only case you can make is for Ryan, who was an awesome player for CGY.

The bottom line is that those players are a dime a dozen. They don't hurt your cap, and give you options if someone gets hurt, or needs to sit in the pressbox. I doubt you will see more than 40 games from either Lewis or Richardson, unless they play some good hockey.