Friedman: Gaudreau negotiations will be put on hold during World Cup

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It worked out pretty much the same as it would if he had signed a long term deal (except for the fact that he is overpaid at $9M - I think $8M is too much for him but some people seem to think he is the greatest thing ever, so whatever).

Here's what he got:

2 x 2.875 = 5.75M
8 x 9.000 = 72.0M

Total, over 10 years of $77.75M, or $7.775M per season

Subban's contract, like O'Reilly's, was purposely backloaded due to the lockout. His actual deal looks like this:

1 x 2 = 2 (pro-rated to 1M)
1 x 3.75 = 3.75
8 x 9 = 72

Total, over 9.5 years of actually being paid of 76.75M

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If he had signed an 8 year deal to begin with, it would have looked something like:

8 x 7.0 = 56M
2 x 10 = 20M

Following similar logic, his contract would have looked something like this:

1 x 4 = 4 (pro-rated to 2M)
7 x 7.4 = 52M
2 x 10 = 20M

Total of 74M.

However, no one was talking about an 7M contract for Subban. That's pure history revision. It's absurd. He was an offensive defenseman with a career high 38 points...a total of 76 points in the NHL.

He broke out in the first year of his bridge contract putting up nearly a point per game, followed up with a 53 point season.

Realistically his actual earnings would have look something like:

1 x 3 = 3 (pro-rated to 1.5M)
7 x 5.9= 41
2 x 10 = 20

64M

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I completely agree. I want a long term deal as well.

The only point I was making was that signing a bridge deal doesn't/shouldn't change a player's expected career earnings.

There are no short cuts to more money.

Gaudreau probably knows that as well I'd guess. He is risking injury on a bridge, that alone would make me want a LT deal if I were him. Even if it's a small risk, it's millions of dollars.

My thinking is that a bridge happens as a last resort because they can't agree on a 6-8 year deal, and both sides probably have no appetite for a holdout. That would be a shame because from a team building POV, this is a hugely important moment for this version of the Flames. A $2 or $3m savings on Gaudreau's contract in three years could be HUGE for this club, especially if they can get Bennett, Brodie and Tkachuk to re-sign on smart deals too.

Besides, all we're going to hear for the length of the bridge is his Johnny wants out and won't commit long term. 8 years would be awesome because it would put all that crap to bed.

[taco.vidal]

I wonder if Burkie is telling the kid he's gotta earn it more before he gets the big payday. More!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Subban's contract, like O'Reilly's, was purposely backloaded due to the lockout. His actual deal looks like this:

1 x 2 = 2 (pro-rated to 1M)
1 x 3.75 = 3.75
8 x 9 = 72

Total, over 9.5 years of actually being paid of 76.75M

Following similar logic, his contract would have looked something like this:

1 x 4 = 4 (pro-rated to 2M)
7 x 7.4 = 52M
2 x 10 = 20M

Total of 74M.

However, no one was talking about an 7M contract for Subban. That's pure history revision. It's absurd. He was an offensive defenseman with a career high 38 points...a total of 76 points in the NHL.

He broke out in the first year of his bridge contract putting up nearly a point per game, followed up with a 53 point season.

Realistically his actual earnings would have look something like:

1 x 3 = 3 (pro-rated to 1.5M)
7 x 5.9= 41
2 x 10 = 20

64M

And I would counter that he is worth no where near $9M now - that is a massive overpayment for a non-200 ft defenseman that an ex-teammate described as uncoachable.

The point remains that taking a bridge deal shouldn't significantly change your career earnings.

Now, if a guy takes a huge and unexpected leap in their level of play, that can certainly change things.

[Oling_Roachinen]

But he's getting paid 9M now...it's not a hypothetical.

In your hypothetical, you have him making 7M on his second contract. That's an absurd number.

Subban was the beneficiary of his bridge contract. He jumped huge. He went from a 36 point defensemen, to a 38 point defenseman...in 42 games. He won the Norris on the first year of his bridge contract. If you go through the two Subban threads discussing his contract on this forum, you'll see many people arguing that Subban was worth 8.5M or more

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ghlight=subban

His actual contract was not that surprising.

On the other hand, if you look at his holdout thread, you'll have many people agreeing with the Hab's 2.75M offer. Certainly people thought he would make higher on a longer term but no one was advocating for 7M.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ghlight=subban

I mean it's all hypothetical, but there's no doubt in my mind that Subban made 10M because of the bridge contract. He jumped hugely, and cashed in on an absolutely huge contract after winning the Norris. There's not many players who are going to jump as much as Subban did, so I'll somewhat agree with your point, just Subban was a terrible example.

You gave him a 56M contract to prove your point, when the Habs probably would not offer him 40M.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

The player might make roughly the same but it is the team that should want to avoid this situation. Had Montreal just signed him for 7/8 years to begin with they could've saved $2-2.5m on the AAV from years 3-8. The fact that they saved $6.2m on the AAV for years one and two mean nothing now because Montreal has nothing to show for it. The Flames are in the same situation (being an aveage team) so signing a bridge is a bad, bordering on terrible, idea. I want the cap savings later when the cup window might actually open. Getting a great 'value' two or three year deal is a gigantic waste of time, it's a classic high risk, low reward move.

This is very well put. We need to be banking AAV savings when we enter our cup window, which isn't in the next 2-3 years.

[handgroen]

i hate this thread

[bigrangy]

When is the window then? I believe it's in the nest 5 years, with the best chance coming in 18-19. Gio will still be effective, Brouwer's wheels won't have completely fallen off (hopefully), Gaudreau will be 25, Monahan will be 23, Bennett will be 21, Tkachuk will still be on his ELC. Brodie will still be 28 and on his ridiculous deal Hamilton will be 25 just entering his prime, and Kylington will be 21 and just finishing his ELC.

If that's not a cup-caliber core by that time, it never will be. If signing Gaudreau for 4 or 5 years saves 2 million per compared to signing him for 8 years, that is a lot of extra flexibility to improve a competitive roster. If he's wants to leave, he'll do it regardless. The Flames' priority should be to have everything lined up properly to take advantage of Brodie's contract and the blue chippers' ELCs. If you can sign JG to a 5x6, that will be a lot better for the Flames' future than signing him to an 8x8.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

This is very well put. We need to be banking AAV savings when we enter our cup window, which isn't in the next 2-3 years.

I would argue that the window to win is within the next 2 to 4 years.

When were Crosby and Ovechkin's highest point totals? Their first 3 years in the NHL.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I would argue that the window to win is within the next 2 to 4 years.

When were Crosby and Ovechkin's highest point totals? Their first 3 years in the NHL.

And the Penguins just won the cup, in Crosby's 11th and Malkin's 10th season. So maybe this window thing people always refer to shouldn't be so rigid.

[Gaskal]

Seems like everyone has their own idea of a fair value deal for both sides. So what's a term and AAV that'll have everyone going "Treliving, grandmaster wizard over all" instead of the more average "well done, old boy" reactions?

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I would argue that the window to win is within the next 2 to 4 years.

When were Crosby and Ovechkin's highest point totals? Their first 3 years in the NHL.

The league was also higher scoring back then. . . In any case, I think we'll be legit contenders in 4-8 years. Years 2-3 we could be getting close, but probably not quite there IMO.

[CroFlames]

In 8 years this will be a totally different team bro.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

The league was also higher scoring back then. . . In any case, I think we'll be legit contenders in 4-8 years. Years 2-3 we could be getting close, but probably not quite there IMO.

I agree, and it's the best argument for locking Gaudreau up long term.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

In 8 years this will be a totally different team bro.

Not necessarily, the core could be roughly the same, like what we've seen from Pittsburgh and Chicago. Gaudreau, Brodie, Bennett, Monahan, Tkachuk could be the next Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook or Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury etc, both cores have lasted for 8+ years.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

I wonder if Burkie is telling the kid he's gotta earn it more before he gets the big payday. More!

Swing and a miss.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by handgroen

i hate this thread

And I feel like it hates us all back. Theres just no joy to be had here. Theres no news, theres no agreement.

This entire thread is like cats in a bag. Theres a lot of blood and carnage but not a lot of benefit to anyone.

[Da_Chief]

I think there is a Brodie cap.

[transplant99]

The Gio cap.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Valuing Gaudreau's next two years at 3m per? LOL that's a slap in the face offer. Would be a great way to hurt your relationship with the player, if that's what you're after.

I guess I missed the part in the CBA where suggested dollar values are being assigned to RFA years.

slap in the face!!??

Really ... Was his face being punched when he played last year for absolutely the most 1.85M... probably closer to 1M as the usual performance bonuses are tied to winning trophies?

That is just the negotiated business rules.

Basically the Flames have to pay him 1 M for 2016-17. He can accept it or sit out and remain Flames property. He doesn't have a lot of viable options.

A 3M x 2 is basically a 4M gift to show good-will.