Friedman: Gaudreau negotiations will be put on hold during World Cup

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're making up scenarios. We don't know what Bennett OR Tkachuk will become.

No, we don't. But we know you don't successfully manage the cap after-the-fact. We've got a decade worth of "cap era" to look at now historically, and parts of the market are already shifting in the direction of pre-emptive extensions.

Gambling with unknowns is not how you manage risk.

Not acting preemptively is, itself a gamble.

[JiriHrdina]

I understand your point EV but I just don't see why Sam would do anything before he has a chance to show his stuff more this year.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Look at actually competetive teams. Even if the Lightning manage to retain Kucherov, they need to say good bye to two or three of Johnson/Palat/Drouin/Bishop. They haven't even won a cup yet and their team is a year away from some inevitably crippling choices.

The Blackhawks since their recent cup have subtracted:

Patrick Sharp (Top Line W, RHS)
Brandon Saad (Top Line W)
Stephen Johns (Top ~3D for the Stars)
Teuvo Taravainen (Middle Six Skill W)
Andrew Shaw (Middle Six Power Winger)

If we could simply add those five players we would have the single best roster in the NHL. They let those guys go with nothing to show for it except some whatever draft picks/prospects. I didn't even name other Cap Casualties of theirs like Leddy and Byfuglien. It's highly unlikely any team can pull future stars out of a hat like they have every time there is a cap crunch. They did it in 2010-2015 almost miraculously, you can't bank on that kind of draft success within a contention window.

Every penny pinched will come in handy if and when a Tkachuk, Shinkaruk, Jankowski, Poirier, Jokipakka, Kulak, Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane, Ferland, Pribyl, Klimchuk, Ollas-Mattsson, Gillies, Hickey or Parsons has a breakout season. That one million saved might be the difference between holding onto Mikael Backlund and sending him off.

I believe you need your money in the top of your roster and fill out the rest with ELCs. But Gaudreau is not Malkin or Crosby where he is an individual line. He needs a centre, and if the CP faithful are right he "needs" a bruising winger too to "protect him from cheap shots".

Crosby won a cup with Patric Hornqvist and Conor Sheary as his sidekicks keeping the top line's cap hit down. Do you see us winning a cup with a similarly paid top line? (Imagine something like Gaudreau-Backlund-Hamilton). Monahan is already making a 6.375M cap hit. If you want to keep the pair together then Gaudreau needs to be paid like a player that is a mutual beneficiary of the pair.

Nothing else needs to be said IMO, this is why we can't over pay. Well said.


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[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Gaudreauvertime, I'd like to know what you think Gaudreau's AAV will be when he ultimately signs. Let's say a 7 year deal.

I don't want to know what you believe he's worth, only looking for what you believe he'll sign for on a 7yr deal.

On 7 years, I think he'd sign for ~7-7.3.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

On 7 years, I think he'd sign for ~7-7.3.

How about over an 8 year deal?

[TheTuna]

JG potting some goals and looking sharp in World Cup so far. How much weight does this tournament have on contract negotiations if he lights it up all tournament I wonder?

[JiriHrdina]

^none.

[Textcritic]

^
Agreed.

If he were signing as a UFA and could play competing offers off of one another it might be different, but Gaudreau has to sign a contract with the Flames if he wants to play hockey.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Completely disagree with those saying Johnny lighting it up in this tournament will have no impact on these negotiations. I agree there is a big chance they won't, but to slam the door shut on the potential seems silly.

Through the first few exhibition games, it looks like everyone has come to play and will take it seriously. If team NA makes a serious impact on this tournament, and Johnny is leading the way or is one of the best players, how can it not? Especially considering this contract negotiation is all about the future value of the player and just how big an impact player he will be. If JG shows he's one of the best in the world on a best on best stage that looks like it's not going to be the exhibition many thought it would be, that's some substantial ammo for JG and his camp to use with BT.

[JiriHrdina]

Because it is an NHL contract. I don't know of any situation where negotiations have been based on how players have done at the World Championships or Olympics. If you can cite examples then I guess it could be possible. But his contract is to play in the NHL, thus what is relevant is NHL performance.
Plus the sample size is far too small.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Completely disagree with those saying Johnny lighting it up in this tournament will have no impact on these negotiations. I agree there is a big chance they won't, but to slam the door shut on the potential seems silly...

Why is it silly? Please explain to me just how that is supposed to work in a negotiation like this. Is Lewis Gross going to do his best Donal Trump impression in his next phone conversation with Treliving and say something like "The contract demand just got $1.0 m higher"?

I don't think this tournament is revealing anything about Gaudreau that we all did not already know. Treliving is not now going to be suddenly shocked into spending more money than he had prior to the WCH.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Because it is an NHL contract. I don't know of any situation where negotiations have been based on how players have done at the World Championships or Olympics. If you can cite examples then I guess it could be possible. But his contract is to play in the NHL, thus what is relevant is NHL performance.
Plus the sample size is far too small.

I understand where you are coming from. Agreed most negotiations are based on compatibles etc.... and I highly doubt a tournament like this has ever been used before to drive a contract. But to suggest something can't happen because it hasn't happened in the past is a bit strange. These long term deals these young players are signing now are relatively new. This tournament hasn't been held in 12 years and we've never seen a tournament like this give the U23 players this sort of chance before on a mass scale, let alone one in the middle of a contract negotiation.

We'd be foolish to suggest that whatever is still being negotiated on by BT and JG's agent has nothing to do with the projection of just how good Johnny's going to be, in fact that will be the entire basis of JGs camps demands. This tournament COULD give a lot of ammo to JGs camp to suggest JG is already one of the best.

This is a pretty unique situation that hasn't really come up before, so to say no chance because there is no precedence seems silly. If I'm BT and JG lights it, sure I'm going to say not relevant. But I assure JGs camp will say it is, as as long as they think it is, then it's already having a factor. And honestly, let's just say JG is MVP of thus tourney which ends up being balls to the wall hockey and NA wins......you don't think that puts some thoughts into BTs head or would have no impact on making him a little more comfortable shelling out more dough......I can't see how it wouldn't.

[nik-]

Seeing as the demand is apparently high enough to prevent a signing all the way into September, asking for more on the back of a performance in this tournament, in exhibition games none the less, seems like a fantastic course of action.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

^none.

If he wins a tournament MVP, it might. That would mean he outplayed Crosby, McDavid, Kane, Price, Quick, Doughty etc

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If he wins a tournament MVP, it might. That would mean he outplayed Crosby, McDavid, Kane, Price, Quick, Doughty etc

I think the agent could try it I guess, but if I was the NHL GM I would not hold it in any relevance.
By the same token if he doesn't have a good tournament, do you think BT will use that as ammo to ask for a lower figure? I sure as sh** don't.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why is it silly? Please explain to me just how that is supposed to work in a negotiation like this. Is Lewis Gross going to do his best Donal Trump impression in his next phone conversation with Treliving and say something like "The contract demand just got $1.0 m higher"?

I don't think this tournament is revealing anything about Gaudreau that we all did not already know. Treliving is not now going to be suddenly shocked into spending more money than he had prior to the WCH.

I gave my larger thoughts in the post I just put up. What I will say is I disagree that this tournament can only tell us what we already know about JG.

I'm a big fan of JG, and I BELIEVE / HOPE that he will be one of the best players in the world, who will be a difference maker at the highest levels against the other best players in the World at the NHL level. He has yet to prove that in his short NHL career (nor should he be expected to have done so yet). IF (and a big if) JG is MVP of team NA and they win or make a serious impact on this tourney (assuming the hockey is as good as it looks like it will be) then all of a sudden what is a huge "unknown" or "maybe" in these negotiations has now become a proven fact for JGs camp with a tangible example to go with it.

None of the other comparible contracts have had that "maybe" erased before. I'm struggling to see how it wouldn't impact, because it would certainly up my confidence that JG could be worth crazy dough.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think the agent could try it I guess, but if I was the NHL GM I would not hold it in any relevance.
By the same token if he doesn't have a good tournament, do you think BT will use that as ammo to ask for a lower figure? I sure as sh** don't.

I think that's the beauty of this unique opportunity for the JG camp. He doesn't perform well, it's still all about the future. Performs well and the argument could be made that the future is already here and it can no where but up, so pay up.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I think that's the beauty of this unique opportunity for the JG camp. He doesn't perform well, it's still all about the future. Performs well and the argument could be made that the future is already here and it can no where but up, so pay up.

I guess
Personally I think that would represent a very poor argument to make and make his agent look like a rank amateur

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I guess
Personally I think that would represent a very poor argument to make and make his agent look like a rank amateur

Why would it look amature? Hey my client was potentially the best player in a recent best on best tourney, but me bringing that to the table has never been done before and I don't want to look like a punk so let's disregard it.

If I'm JG and he doesn't want to use my WC performance if I light it up, I fire him instantly.

[JiriHrdina]

Sample size and relevance. It ain't the NHL and it is too short. If they can build a case around his NHL career they don't have a good enough case