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View Poll Results: Assuming a term of 7 years what will Gaudreau's AAV end up being?
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6.500 - 6.625
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9 |
1.28% |
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6.625 - 6.750
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5 |
0.71% |
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6.750 - 6.875
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21 |
2.99% |
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6.875 - 7.000
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59 |
8.40% |
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7.000 - 7.125
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89 |
12.68% |
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7.125 - 7.250
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85 |
12.11% |
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7.250 - 7.375
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112 |
15.95% |
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7.375 - 7.500
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102 |
14.53% |
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7.500 - 7.625
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71 |
10.11% |
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7.625 - 7.750
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38 |
5.41% |
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7.750 - 7.875
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39 |
5.56% |
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7.875 - 8.000
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33 |
4.70% |
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8.000 - 8.125
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21 |
2.99% |
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8.125 - 8.250
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6 |
0.85% |
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8.250 - 8.375
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1 |
0.14% |
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8.375 - 8.500
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11 |
1.57% |
09-10-2016, 03:35 PM
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#1021
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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I think half the opinions on that board are influenced by this angle.
Quote:
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This makes an Oilers fan in me smile
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The more the Flames pay for Gaudreau, the more cap problems we have.
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09-10-2016, 03:37 PM
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#1022
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Franchise Player
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If the Flames window is in the next 5 years for a championship (which it is), then sign him to a 5 year deal at 6 million per if he is playing hardball. If he chooses to walk afterwards, let someone else pay him 9+ million a year.
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09-10-2016, 03:48 PM
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#1023
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
If the Flames window is in the next 5 years for a championship (which it is), then sign him to a 5 year deal at 6 million per if he is playing hardball. If he chooses to walk afterwards, let someone else pay him 9+ million a year.
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A big fat NO.
There is absolutely no way the Flames sign him just long enough to let him hit UFA.
Again, he Flames have all the leverage at this point beyond JG sitting out, which he simply won't do ass the money he loses will never be recoverable.
The only compromise on a shorter deal would be a bridge on a 3 year deal, and at that it wont be for more than 5.5 or so per.
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09-10-2016, 04:41 PM
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#1024
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
I think half the opinions on that board are influenced by this angle.
The more the Flames pay for Gaudreau, the more cap problems we have.
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Not really - star players do not cause cap issues.
The bottom pairing making nearly $9M causes cap issues.
__________________
”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
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09-10-2016, 04:51 PM
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#1025
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
Not really - star players do not cause cap issues.
The bottom pairing making nearly $9M causes cap issues.
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ALL overpayments cause cap problems.
And the longer the term of the contract, the longer the overpayment is around.
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09-10-2016, 04:59 PM
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#1026
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
ALL overpayments cause cap problems.
And the longer the term of the contract, the longer the overpayment is around.
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What 23 year old star players in the last ten years have busted on their second deal?
__________________
”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
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09-10-2016, 05:02 PM
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#1027
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
What 23 year old star players in the last ten years have busted on their second deal?
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Are you trying to suggest that none have ever been overpaid?
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09-10-2016, 05:08 PM
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#1028
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Are you trying to suggest that none have ever been overpaid?
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Overpaid is relative - what young players have hamstrung their teams with their eventual contracts?
I can really only think of Subban, and that $9M cap hit is entirely the fault of Montreal not giving him 7X7 when they had the chance.
__________________
”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
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09-10-2016, 05:12 PM
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#1029
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
ALL overpayments cause cap problems.
And the longer the term of the contract, the longer the overpayment is around.
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Yeah considering we are already talking about needing Smid on LTI and paper moving Bennett and Shinkaruk to the A in order to get under the cap this season, it's a problem. Maybe we want to sign Higgins or keep Wotherspoon up or make other moves such as adding at the trade deadline, that we can't because our cap is maxed.
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09-10-2016, 05:16 PM
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#1030
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Yeah considering we are already talking about needing Smid on LTI and paper moving Bennett and Shinkaruk to the A in order to get under the cap this season, it's a problem. Maybe we want to sign Higgins or keep Wotherspoon up or make other moves such as adding at the trade deadline, that we can't because our cap is maxed.
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No we're not.
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09-10-2016, 05:25 PM
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#1031
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Yeah considering we are already talking about needing Smid on LTI and paper moving Bennett and Shinkaruk to the A in order to get under the cap this season, it's a problem. Maybe we want to sign Higgins or keep Wotherspoon up or make other moves such as adding at the trade deadline, that we can't because our cap is maxed.
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Without Smid's LTIR savings, and assuming $7M for Gaudreau, Calgary has $1.59M in cap space.
Bennett and Shinkaruk don't need to start in the A.
__________________
”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
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09-10-2016, 05:29 PM
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#1032
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Are you trying to suggest that none have ever been overpaid?
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He has a pretty point. It's possible the most overpaid "second contract player" in the league might actually be Dougie Hamilton, and most still anticipate him being a bargain in a few years.
Second contract players, regardless how proven, like Klingberg, Klefbom, Larsson, Ekblad, Tarasenko, Seguin, Tavares, Hall, OEL, Ennis, represent strong value relative to performance. About the only bad contracts given to players like in this age range are the Sbisa-type deals which make simply no sense to anyone with eyes.
Third/Fourth contracts are the real cap killer. Toews, Seabrook, Stamkos, Brown, Kessel, Giordano, Byfuglien, Chara, Boychuk, Subban, Voracek, Brouwer, Lucic, Eriksson. On a smaller scale we could even have avoided Bouma's bad deal if we gave him term instead of a bridge a few years back. Term on 23-29 players won't hurt you. Term on 30+ players is a death sentence.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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09-10-2016, 05:32 PM
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#1033
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
Without Smid's LTIR savings, and assuming $7M for Gaudreau, Calgary has $1.59M in cap space.
Bennett and Shinkaruk don't need to start in the A.
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Assume an over payment of $8M and we have no room for 23 players.
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09-10-2016, 05:35 PM
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#1034
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Assume an over payment of $8M and we have no room for 23 players.
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We have three years of watching Brad Treliving negotiate. Vlad Tarasenko is an outlier, not the standard. He has the KHL card in his back pocket.
Johnny's peers all make between 6-7M. Do you believe Brad is going to reset the market? I don't.
__________________
”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
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09-10-2016, 05:50 PM
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#1035
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
We have three years of watching Brad Treliving negotiate. Vlad Tarasenko is an outlier, not the standard. He has the KHL card in his back pocket.
Johnny's peers all make between 6-7M. Do you believe Brad is going to reset the market? I don't.
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Yeah, I'm on your side but I was originally responding to the over payment side.
and just a minute ago you were arguing that overpaying for a star player doesn't cause problems.
Last edited by Vulcan; 09-10-2016 at 05:52 PM.
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09-10-2016, 05:51 PM
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#1036
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Yeah, I'm on your side but I was originally responding to the over payment side.
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Fair enough 
__________________
”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
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09-10-2016, 05:51 PM
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#1037
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
What 23 year old star players in the last ten years have busted on their second deal?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Are you trying to suggest that none have ever been overpaid?
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I don't think this is the issue at hand. If a team has enough big contracts that are in line with a player's worth they WILL struggle to fill out a complete NHL roster with players capable of playing their role.
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09-10-2016, 06:02 PM
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#1038
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Assume an over payment of $8M and we have no room for 23 players.
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Gaudreau (8M) - Monahan (6.375M) - Chiasson (.8M)
Shinkaruk (.863M) - Bennett (.925M) - Brouwer (4.5M)
Ferland (.825M) - Backlund (3.575M) - Frolik (4.3M)
Bouma (2.2M) - Stajan (3.125M) - Vey (.7M)
Giordano (6.75M) - Brodie (4.65)
Jokipakka (.9M) - Hamilton (5.75M)
Wideman (5.25M) - Engelland (2.916M)
Smid (3.5M)
Elliot (2.5M)
Johnson (1.7M)
$72,405,400
$594,600 in cap-space.
Gaudreau at 8M is not an overpayment.
Last edited by ComixZone; 09-10-2016 at 06:05 PM.
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09-10-2016, 06:06 PM
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#1039
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
I don't think this is the issue at hand. If a team has enough big contracts that are in line with a player's worth they WILL struggle to fill out a complete NHL roster with players capable of playing their role.
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Gio: $6.75 for 6 more years.
Monahan: $6.38 for 7 more years.
Brodie: $4.65 for 4 more years.
Dougie: $5.75 for 5 more years.
Frolik: $4.3 for 4 more years.
Brouwer: $4.5 for 4 more years.
Johnny: TBD
Everyone else expires in the next two years. The Flames will run into issues if we have players the calibre of Bouma and Engelland making $2.5+.
If there's any of the current core that's going to get us into cap trouble, it's Backlund.
__________________
”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
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09-10-2016, 06:09 PM
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#1040
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Third/Fourth contracts are the real cap killer. Toews, Seabrook, Stamkos, Brown, Kessel, Giordano, Byfuglien, Chara, Boychuk, Subban, Voracek, Brouwer, Lucic, Eriksson. On a smaller scale we could even have avoided Bouma's bad deal if we gave him term instead of a bridge a few years back. Term on 23-29 players won't hurt you. Term on 30+ players is a death sentence.
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10.5, 6.9, 8.5, 5.87, 6.8, 6.75, 7.6, 6.9, 6.0, 9.0, 8.25, 4.5, 6.0, 6.0
lol wow, took some balls throwing the 4.5 one in 
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