Friedman: Gaudreau negotiations will be put on hold during World Cup

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I'm a little surprised this is where they are at after a summer of negotiation. This is what I believed the opening position would be for both sides.

Most reasonable speculation I have seen is that fair value is somewhere in the low 7's. Maybe one side doesn't see it that way.

Please don't tell me the Calgary Flames have a Mark Giordano cap.

Maybe Ken King is involved and has taken strategy ideas from his Calgarynext plan and inplemented them in Johnny's contract negotiations. It sounds ridiculous but it would help explain things.

[Bingo]

I think too much is being made of the Giordano contract as a cap.

Before any of this started I had the deal at 5x6 + 3x8 which works out exactly to 6.75 per year and a pretty fair deal in my mind, as the 6m per year is pretty price for RFA years for a guy that has only played two years.

The Tarasenko deal adjusted by one more RFA year is 7.1M and really only .5 out of where the Flames are sitting.

The reason this isn't done if Gross is at 8.5M was outlined pretty well by quotes in Francis' article ... he's not a UFA and he hasn't done it for two contracts.

They need to come down and Treliving should just sit at 6.5M until they cross that 8M divide and then get serious.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Treliving is a ****ing moron if he thinks he can get Johnny at 6.5 for term... Remember when it was Johnny's fault for the hold out because Calgary paid Monahan and therefore have already offered Johnny good money? Maybe I wasn't wrong after all?

He's our best player. Face of the franchise. Why would you insult him with low ball offers? If you don't want to pay him what he's worth, trade him to somebody who will. This is starting to get embarrassing.

Yes it is.

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just surprised at how much his RFA years were worth. Some people here think Johnny's are worth less than 5 lol. Malkin's a great player, but he's not 2x better than the guy who just finished 6th in scoring, art ross or not.

If you are going to come here and flog the case of your client, at least post with some honour and respect of others. I never said his RFA years were worth less than $5m, I said a bridge deal (of 2 or 3 years) would be less than $5m. No player that I can recall has ever gotten a post-ELC bridge deal of more than $5m. Subban is probably the last good comparable.

That is not the same as saying the RFA years are worth less than $5m per, if he signs a long-term deal. Here is my last post showing numbers:

Good article. Comparing all those contracts side by side adds great context.

Given the choice, would you rather have Ekblad or Tarasenko? I have said in the past that I think Tarasenko is overpaid. When you put him side by side with Ekblad, it seems pretty obvious. I think Ekblad's contract is warranted. For me, it's no contest who I would rather have. I think STL will regret that contract and I don't ever want to see the Flames in the position that they regret Johnny's contract.

For me, Johnny's contract should be a bit less than Ekblad's for 2 reasons: hardware (Calder), and age - Ekblad doing what he has done as a teenager is pretty impressive. So maybe 1 or 2 hundred K less for those reasons.

Then there is the issue of one less year of UFA. Haynes values that at $375k. That is probably about right. Let's say $250k to be conservative.

So let's take Ekblad's contract, and factor in those things. Call it $100k for the first two items, and $250k for the extra RFA year and you get:

8 x $7.15M (7.5 - 0.25 - 0.1)

To me, that sounds just about right, and sounds like about what Tarasenko should have gotten. It also puts him higher than Monahan and Forsberg but lower than Ekblad, which also sounds about right

Suggesting an 8 yr deal of $7.15m implies RFA years likely worth something in the neighbourhood of $6m per.

You constantly whine that people attack you, or don't read your posts, or throw up strawman arguments, but it is you that seems to be doing those things all the time.

If you would like to present arguments in a polite manner, then by all means, present away and flog your agency's position. But if you're going to try and mis-represent others, then just stop.

And if you're going to call Treliving a ####ing moron, then GTFO.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Treliving is a ****ing moron if he thinks he can get Johnny at 6.5 for term... Remember when it was Johnny's fault for the hold out because Calgary paid Monahan and therefore have already offered Johnny good money? Maybe I wasn't wrong after all?

He's our best player. Face of the franchise. Why would you insult him with low ball offers? If you don't want to pay him what he's worth, trade him to somebody who will. This is starting to get embarrassing.

[cam_wmh]

I predict, an October 1st signing announcement of 8yrs x $7.25m; $58m.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I predict, an October 1st signing announcement of 8yrs x $7.25m; $58m.

That would be great!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I predict, an October 1st signing announcement of 8yrs x $7.25m; $58m.

Totally agree ... 7.1 to 7.5 range for sure.

But it's going to take the Gaudreau camp to move quite a bit to get that done. It's in their court. Play or not.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Totally agree ... 7.1 to 7.5 range for sure.

But it's going to take the Gaudreau camp to move quite a bit to get that done. It's in their court. Play or not.

In negotiations like this, someone has to blink first. Both sides wait until the end because that's the maximum pressure point, and the likely time we see a deal. Either Treliving or Gaudreau (or both in your estimate), but there's no impetus to move until the 11th hour.

My guess is $7Mx7yrs signed October 9th

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Totally agree ... 7.1 to 7.5 range for sure.

But it's going to take the Gaudreau camp to move quite a bit to get that done. It's in their court. Play or not.

I could see.the Flames possibly caving to 7 years as opposed to 8 but I really hope they stand strong on the max term and insist they buy 3 UFA years

[Dr. Doom]

He's either receiving some bad advice and/or he doesn't care to create a rift in Calgary - especially if this continues.

“He’s played two years in the league and is a great player, but is he that much better than (Nashville’s Filip) Forsberg ($6 million AAV) or Nathan MacKinnon ($6.3 million AAV) or Monahan? This is the one year the Flames have rights and they’re pushing hard to exercise them.”

Enough said. What makes him think the Flames will budge here?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

He's either receiving some bad advice and/or he doesn't care to create a rift in Calgary - especially if this continues.



Enough said. What makes him think the Flames will budge here?

Ristolainen, Lindholm, Trouba and Kucherov are all also unsigned. Are they too receiving 'bad advice'?

The World Cup is affording these guys a little more time to negotiate deals because they know whenever they get into camp, they're going to be at full speed.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Totally agree ... 7.1 to 7.5 range for sure.

But it's going to take the Gaudreau camp to move quite a bit to get that done. It's in their court. Play or not.

7.1 to 7.5 would take more movement from Calgary than from Gross

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Ristolainen, Lindholm, Trouba and Kucherov are all also unsigned. Are they too receiving 'bad advice'?

The World Cup is affording these guys a little more time to negotiate deals because they know whenever they get into camp, they're going to be at full speed.

I don't know of those other situations but Gaudreau doesn't have much in the way of bargaining rights at this stage...

So yes it is bad advice...

That is unless they don't care if this gets ugly. In which case you have to wonder about his intentions to stay in Calgary long term.

[saillias]

Trouba does want out, that is the commonly accepted story out of Winnipeg. Kurt Oberhart(?) is his agent who has a history of managing this.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

I don't know of those other situations but Gaudreau doesn't have much in the way of bargaining rights at this stage...

So yes it is bad advice...

That is unless they don't care if this gets ugly. In which case you have to wonder about his intentions to stay in Calgary long term.

Why is it bad advice? He's not going to be at camp regardless.

As fans, missing training camp and coming in somewhat out of shape or a step behind is what really sucks about these holdouts. Gaudreau won't be out of shape, he'll be coming off a pretty high intensity tournament.

The only leverage he has is time. So he's using it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

7.1 to 7.5 would take more movement from Calgary than from Gross

How do you figure?

If what is being reported is accurate:

‹7.1—7.5› – 8.0 = -0.9—0.5
‹7.1—7.5› – 6.5 = +0.6—1.0

I think you are being intentionally obtuse. "More movement" in this case is practically negligible.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

He's either receiving some bad advice and/or he doesn't care to create a rift in Calgary - especially if this continues.



Enough said. What makes him think the Flames will budge here?

I don't think that quote is from the Flames. Just an agent. Probably Ritch Winter if I had to guess.

"Neither side is commenting on the negotiations, so we asked several agents and insiders their thoughts on the predicament that landed both sides where they are.

“He wants unrestricted money but he’s restricted,” said one source, who doesn’t blame Gross for the monstrous ask.

“He’s played two years in the league and is a great player, but is he that much better than (Nashville’s Filip) Forsberg ($6 million AAV) or Nathan MacKinnon ($6.3 million AAV) or Monahan? This is the one year the Flames have rights and they’re pushing hard to exercise them.”

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

I don't know of those other situations but Gaudreau doesn't have much in the way of bargaining rights at this stage...

So yes it is bad advice...

That is unless they don't care if this gets ugly. In which case you have to wonder about his intentions to stay in Calgary long term.

Why would we think things about to get "ugly"? There is still lots of time thanks to the World Cup, and we have heard nothing reported so far to suggest that both parties are not negotiating in good faith and with the primary goal of arriving at a long-term deal.

[mikeecho]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be) but I seem to remember something similar with the last Gio negotiation. Word slips that Gio wants a huge pay day, people go crazy about how insane his ask is, and then he eventually signs for a much lower number. When asked, the response from Gio was that he never asked for anything close to what was reported.

It's always very curious when info like this appears in the media. Let's face it... Francis didn't just happen to accidentally come along and find someones negotiation notes or run into someone who was drunk and blabbed by accident. Someone on the record but off the record conveniently dropped him some info for a reason, and it's all part of the negotiation process.

If I had to guess, someone from the Flames gave him this nugget to run with to start creating pressure on Johnny who is allegedly asking for a crazy pay day.

In the end, I'll guess that Johnny signs for much less and his camp will say that they never asked for anything close to what was being reported (although they certainly will have asked for more than he ends up signing for).

**That whole, both sides wont talk about negotiations so we asked some agents part is his way of protecting the source in the negotiations. If this was really a story of what other agents think, then it'd be nothing more than an easy tweet as opposed to a story.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Why is it bad advice? He's not going to be at camp regardless.

As fans, missing training camp and coming in somewhat out of shape or a step behind is what really sucks about these holdouts. Gaudreau won't be out of shape, he'll be coming off a pretty high intensity tournament.

The only leverage he has is time. So he's using it.

Seems to me, without actually having the data, that players that hold out often have bad years. So there can be a price in that way.