Friedman: Gaudreau negotiations will be put on hold during World Cup

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

If that is the hangup, they are probably fighting over $2m-$3m over the course of the deal. At some point do you not just meet in the middle?

If that's indeed what the hangup is, then both sides are probably waiting it out to see if the other side will blink. If neither side budges, then they can still meet in the middle later on before the season starts.

[CroFlames]

IMO, if it's 2-3 million over the life of the contract, then the Flames should stay pat. Why meet in the middle? They have the leverage.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I understand that but we are likely talking about a difference of around $0.25m on his AAV. I can understand the Flames wanting that for salary cap reasons but this is also the same team that doesn't have a problem throwing away money at guys like Raymond and Engelland. Just stop overpaying depth players and don't worry if your star forward is 3% overpaid.

What makes you so sure this is being held up over a 1/4M of cap hit? I would be shocked if either side has yet to put pen to paper if all they are disputing is $250K a season, but maybe I'm out to lunch.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I understand that but we are likely talking about a difference of around $0.25m on his AAV. I can understand the Flames wanting that for salary cap reasons but this is also the same team that doesn't have a problem throwing away money at guys like Raymond and Engelland. Just stop overpaying depth players and don't worry if your star forward is 3% overpaid.

This is completely irrelevant to Gaudreau's value and current negotiation, and it is badly out of context. Those UFA deals were signed at a point in time in which the Flames were realistically staring down a five-year rebuild period and the possibility that they would struggle to meet the salary cap floor. To say that the team presently "doesn't have a problem throwing away money" on depth players is patently false. The Flames clearly had no interest this summer in meeting contract asks from Colborne, Hudler, Jones, Raymond and other mid/low-level players.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

What makes you so sure this is being held up over a 1/4M of cap hit? I would be shocked if either side has yet to put pen to paper if all they are disputing is $250K a season, but maybe I'm out to lunch.

It's just a theory but Gaudreau's situation of needing 5 RFA years to be bought after his ELC is unique in relation to his peers (other stars). I suspect the Flames are trying to take full advantage, which they should to an extent. The actual #'s is just speculation but I think the reason this isn't done yet is because of that 5th RFA year.

I think I'm just getting antsy lol. I'm sure this will get done soon enough.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is completely irrelevant to Gaudreau's value and current negotiation, and it is badly out of context. Those UFA deals were signed at a point in time in which the Flames were realistically staring down a five-year rebuild period and the possibility that they would struggle to meet the salary cap floor. To say that the team presently "doesn't have a problem throwing away money" on depth players is patently false. The Flames clearly had no interest this summer in meeting contract asks from Colborne, Hudler, Jones, Raymond and other mid/low-level players.

UFA or not, they were still overpayments at the time and in hindsight.

[Ryan Coke]

Well, I imagine any player would be just as motivated to take advantage of being a UFA a year sooner, and if the Flames said 'but you are only just barely a UFA' and wanted an extra year of restricted rights, it would go absolutely nowhere.

So maybe they are willing to move in a range of RFA and UFA salaries, but are unwilling to ignore the fact that there is an extra year of restricted rights.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

UFA or not, they were still overpayments at the time and in hindsight.

Who can control hindsight? The point stands that the team cannot presently be characterised as you have chosen to do so as reckless in its overcommitments to lower level players. What more can the Flames do to correct past mistakes but ensure that they don't repeat them?

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

UFA or not, they were still overpayments at the time and in hindsight.

They were necessary over payments to reach the cap floor. The team is in a completely different situation now.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

It's just a theory but Gaudreau's situation of needing 5 RFA years to be bought after his ELC is unique in relation to his peers (other stars). I suspect the Flames are trying to take full advantage, which they should to an extent. The actual #'s is just speculation but I think the reason this isn't done yet is because of that 5th RFA year.

I think I'm just getting antsy lol. I'm sure this will get done soon enough.

Totally understood. To be honest, I don't critique anyone who is now antsy. Regardless why it's not done, it's not done and WC games start this week. I don't think anyone thought it would be going this long, and although it may very well get done, it's clear that this simply isn't a "these things take time" situation anymore.

The two sides have yet to come to an an agreement on a fair deal. Again, not saying either side has done anything wrong or shouldn't be pushing for what they are, but as fans, not the situation you'd hope your team would be in with one of their key young players.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Who can control hindsight? The point stands that the team cannot presently be characterised as you have chosen to do so as reckless in its overcommitments to lower level players. What more can the Flames do to correct past mistakes but ensure that they don't repeat them?

Look, I agree with the Flames trying to get the best deal possible. As a Flames fan, I want the lowest AAV possible while still keeping Gaudreau happy.

I'm just saying it would be a shame if they had to sign a bridge as a compromise (likely leading to more dollars spent on Johnny over the next 8 years) or if this leads to a holdout all because they couldn't agree on the impact one extra RFA year should have on the life of the deal.

[Textcritic]

^
A bridge deal might actually prove to be a very good decision in the long run.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

They were necessary over payments to reach the cap floor. The team is in a completely different situation now.

Three years was a bit much if that's all they were designed to do, and I actually like Engelland. I'm just never in favor of giving 30 year old depth players more than two years. Ideally they would sign one year at a time but that probably isn't realistic.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
A bridge deal might actually prove to be a very good decision in the long run.

You think? That could lead to an offersheet, arbitration or an AAV that is much, much higher than what he would sign right now on an 8 year deal. I don't think the Flames will be contenders for at least two years so I really don't see the upside to a bridge deal.

I want a 7/8 year deal, anything less and I will be disappointed. Gaudreau is only going to increase his value going forward so in the long run, a bridge might actually leave less money for Brodie, Bennett and Tkachuk... the very thing they presumably are trying to avoid by grinding this out right now.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Three years was a bit much if that's all they were designed to do, and I actually like Engelland. I'm just never in favor of giving 30 year old depth players more than two years. Ideally they would sign one year at a time but that probably isn't realistic.

UFA's don't sign for one year, unless they are desperate for a deal. And at the time the Flames were in a downward spiral. That deal and the Raymond deal made sense. People weren't lining up to toil on the Flames.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I'm worried that Gaudreau would deem the Tarasenko contract acceptable but the Flames are getting hung up on that 5th RFA year and are using it to try to get Johnny to come down.

I hope that's exactly what's happening, because whether Johnny or anyone else likes it or not, he's not in the same boat as Tarasenko. That 5th RFA year has, or should have, a massive change on the AAV of any long term deal.

Just for conversation's sake, I'm going to assuming Tarasenko's 8x$7.5M deal is based on 4x$6M for the RFA years and 4x$9M for the UFA years. Therefore Johnny's equivalent to the Tarasenko deal at various terms is:
8 years: 5x$6M + 3x$9M = $7.125M AAV
7 years: 5x$6M + 2x$9M = $6.85M AAV
6 years: 5x$6M + 1x$9M = $6.5M AAV

People who throw around various terms while keeping the same AAV are clueless. They are extraordinarily related due to the fact that Johnny is an RFA for 5 years.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

UFA's don't sign for one year, unless they are desperate for a deal. And at the time the Flames were in a downward spiral. That deal and the Raymond deal made sense. People weren't lining up to toil on the Flames.

Honestly, I would've preferred 2x $4.0m for both players if the Flames wanted them and their cap hits so much. I wouldn't have liked that either but at least the deals would be over right now.

Other teams can solve their cap floor problems without signing depth players to deals like that, I think it's just a cop out. Surely there was a team out there that would've unloaded a shorter term deal on us to help solve their cap problems instead (we might've even skimmed another asset in the process).

I honestly think both signings were done 99% because management liked the players, it didn't have as much to do with getting to the floor as people think imo.

[Groot]

And another update from Gaudreau from NHL.com article...

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=892327

Gaudreau said his agent, Lewis Gross, continues to talk to the Flames but he and Gross won't be speaking until his World Cup is finished.
"I told him I didn't want to be involved during the tournament," Gaudreau said. "I'm here to play for Team North America and I'm going to put that aside and play with this team for the next month here."

[jemjey]

F*** Team North America! Who cares about team north America... just sign already Johnny

[bigrangy]

^Just one of the many reasons why I'm hoping Team NA doesn't make it past the group stage. I can't wait until they're knocked out.