Friedman: Gaudreau negotiations will be put on hold during World Cup

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Fair enough. What I struggle with has been the utilization of those cap dollars. For instance I like Brouwer but if those are the types of contracts we have to avoid because Johnny is getting paid then so be it. The same for Bouma, Frolik, Engellend, Stajan, Bollig, Wideman etc. I would rather pay Johnny and fill the roster with ELC players myself

Oh ya, totally get that. But that's a different topic, no? (i.e. wasting cap dollars). Saying I'd rather have that $1+M hanging around is certainly predicated on the assumption that it doesn't get wasted.

On that topic though, I'm willing to give management the benefit of the doubt that Bollig/Engelland were about ensuring there were some vets around and overpaying when we had the cap money to waste.

Similar with Stajan to ensure we had a centre to protect Monahan when we were going to suck anyways and also just a good vet to have around. Although 2 more years of that deal instead of 1 makes resigning Bennett a bit trickier.

Frolik is a different situation. That's a valid conversation about whether you think that's a bit of cap waste because it was an actual long term investment to take us through some of our window. I'm personally ok with the contract, but not going to argue anyone who thinks its a bit of a waste.

[spetch]

No need to panic. Johnny plays a big role in the opening montage (sp?) no way they would go to all that video work and not sign him

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Oh ya, totally get that. But that's a different topic, no? (i.e. wasting cap dollars). Saying I'd rather have that $1+M hanging around is certainly predicated on the assumption that it doesn't get wasted.

On that topic though, I'm willing to give management the benefit of the doubt that Bollig/Engelland were about ensuring there were some vets around and overpaying when we had the cap money to waste.

Similar with Stajan to ensure we had a centre to protect Monahan when we were going to suck anyways and also just a good vet to have around. Although 2 more years of that deal instead of 1 makes resigning Bennett a bit trickier.

Frolik is a different situation. That's a valid conversation about whether you think that's a bit of cap waste because it was an actual long term investment to take us through some of our window. I'm personally ok with the contract, but not going to argue anyone who thinks its a bit of a waste.

Good analysis and I agree with the principles you are stating. And you're right it's a different argument. But I really disagree with the concept that Bollig, Engelland, Raymond deals were not ok because we had cap money to waste. They are long term deals. Hell Raymond is going to count against the cap next year too. And this team has no cap space.

[speeds]

I wrote a short post on this situation, if anyone is interested, here is the link:

http://hockeysymposium.blogspot.ca/2...mes-exert.html

[bob-loblaw]

We need to hear the East-West Hotstove for some decent intel. Al Morganti seems to have his ears pretty close to the ground from the Gaudreau side.

[GreenLantern2814]

I haven't been here since the GIF party - there's no news, is there.

[Five-hole]

So that's what our offense looks like without Johnny...


It wasn't pretty.

(And Mony.)

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

So that's what our offense looks like without Johnny...


It wasn't pretty.

(And Mony.)

and divided in half... and full of rookies, and first time lines, and a new coaching system... and most players first game after summer.

[Manhattanboy]

From my discussion today with a Flames insider the gap remains wide.

[djsFlames]

Ugh.

Wish both sides would get over themselves.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

From my discussion today with a Flames insider the gap remains wide.

Which, unfortunately can likely only get solved by time. One side or the other getting more desperate (team losing or player missing paycheques, etc) and starting to cave.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

So that's what our offense looks like without Johnny...


It wasn't pretty.

(And Mony.)

Yah, we should totally draw conclusions from the first pre season split squad games.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

From my discussion today with a Flames insider the gap remains wide.

Of course it is. As much as we all shouldn't panic, neither side was going to allow this to spill into missing training camp because they can't agree on how many Skittle packs Johnny gets on team flights. They have to be apart on serious dough to be letting this drag on into late September.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Which, unfortunately can likely only get solved by time. One side or the other getting more desperate (team losing or player missing paycheques, etc) and starting to cave.

Sounds like building a good relationship....

[CroFlames]

Well another business day has come and gone and still no deal.

I want to smack Johnny's agent.

Johnny too actually. For going to the football game while he should be at work.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Well another business day has come and gone and still no deal.

I want to smack Johnny's agent.

Johnny too actually. For going to the football game while he should be at work.

He's not under contract and not getting paid so what work are you referring to?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Well another business day has come and gone and still no deal.

I want to smack Johnny's agent.

Johnny too actually. For going to the football game while he should be at work.

He should be here learning the new systems like everyone else. We want everyone on the same page opening night, including the "stars". Hope he's back in the fold within a week, but doesn't feel likely...

[Manhattanboy]

I've been through these kinds of negotiations a number of times, the problem being of course that at some point things start to turn from business to personal.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

The other downside that has sort of slipped by, maybe because of the WCH, but the leverage point of "I won't be at the start of training camp" has been and gone. He's already not at camp with his team mates, that leverage point (which was more Johnny's than the Flames) is now gone. which means the next real crucial date is the start of the season.

Just based on negotiations, I can't see this wrapping until right before the first the opening game. What's going to change or be said between now and then that will narrow the gap, that couldn't have already been worked out? And that next leverage point is once again all Johnny's again. It's just one game to him, but for the Flames they really have to decide if they want to start without him and risk getting behind the 8 ball, and send that message to their fans and the league that says this has gotten that serious.

It's only after the first game at this point do any of the leverage pints start to come back to the Flames. Johnny starts missing paycheques, starts missing opportunities to pad stats. And then what will really help swing things is how do they do without him? Stumble out the gate, advantage Johnny, have a good start, advantage Flames.

At this point, I'm fully expecting this to take until at least game 10. I think Johnny wants a big pay day, and I doubt anything is going to change on the Flames end between now and the start of the year that they couldn't have already become comfortable with paying out. So I think Johnny is going to be willing to wait and see if a slow start will push them to cave, as that's his best opportunity given his contract status to get paid big. I would love to be wrong on this one, but I don't think he starts the season.

[djsFlames]

If it takes until after the start of the season, I hope the Flames do really well out of the gate. I'd hate to see the team suffer because of him/his agent's unwillingness to move on what's rumoured to be Stamkos type pay for a player with just two years of experience. I don't think it's unreasonable for the Flames to come up over the 6.75 mil "cap" nor for Gaudreau's camp to come down under 8. Both sides are a bit out to lunch on their respective ends.