Friedman: Gaudreau negotiations will be put on hold during World Cup

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Be interesting to see if he leaves Toronto for Calgary or the family home...

If he goes home, I hope his mom makes him a nice breakfast so he can be ready for his trip to Calgary.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

If he goes home, I hope his mom makes him a nice breakfast so he can be ready for his trip to Calgary.

Ha! Breakfast!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

I hope Gaudreau gets signed to 8 Years. Just give him $8m a year and be done with it.
The Flames have never had a player with his raw talent before. I do believe he will win the Art Ross one year. Maybe not this year though. All depends on who Slots into the RW position on his line.

Have you seen Iggy's trophy case?

[topfiverecords]

Yes Johnny, I repeat, we'll throw in the skittles.

[kn]

Originally Posted by pylon

Strictly my opinion here, but I believe there is more at play than what's on the surface. I believe if Johnny doesn't ultimate plan to be a long term Flame, and doesn't want to sign long term, (bold prediction time) they may move him in the coming month for something huge. His value is off the charts, and I'm pretty sure you could net a huge fish with him.

Unless we're getting a young superstar back, I don't think this is a trade we win. The fans will be livid regardless of the return and it certainly better not be four prospects for JG. We'd need a superstar at the same age back.

I can't think of anyone around the same age who makes as much of an impact on and off the ice who would be available. MacKinnon? I'd rather have JG.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I expect Gaudreau to be better than McDavid this season.

That was my point.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Now that the NA team tourney is over, we shall see how things progress.

If Johnny's camp wants to be unreasonable, I don't mind if he sits for a while.

He is a unique player that has shown a lot so far. Over a short time frame. On the other hand, of course, the Flames have their own set of questions, only 2 years in the league, road performance, etc.

The Flames have the majority of the leverage due to his contract situation. So many RFA years.

If it is half a million AAV over 8 years, it is 4 million total as the disputed amount. Presumably his year 1 is at least 4 M. So if he sits, it can be a wash monetarily.

Johnny's camp should ask themselves questions such as:
Are the Flames such contenders this year that they can't afford to let him sit out for a while? Who has more to lose, me or the team?
They were, what, 26th last year? Matthew Tkachuk is a rookie. New coach, who is getting a second chance after a pretty poor first run.... new goalie, but who put up good stats, but in front of Hitchcock D. As much as Troy Brouwer likes where things are going, this season is far from a sure thing. The team is likely not a cup favourite now, so if there is one year they can afford to live without him, maybe this is it.

This is a big league negotiation, and the answer is not "Give him what he wants." If your negotiating position is such that you want to make a threat, you need to be able to follow through or you lose your credibility. You pick your lines and you pick your threats, but if the team has a ceiling, it has a ceiling. And if Johnny thinks he is bigger than the whole concept of RFA, there could be a situation where he can sit and think about it for days, months or years.

Obviously there are many other considerations, but Johnny has an impressive but limited resume, notable lack of achievements versus the players one may cite as comparables, little leverage in terms of contract status.

Hudler, while obviously not being a comparable, was top 10 in league scoring season before last, did that for 4 M or whatever, and likely won't see that payday again. Toews. Kane, even Croaby had cups before they got paid. Johnny was a good player on a bad team. So was Olli Jokinen once. (I object to many of those as comparables but the point is that Johnny has not shown enough over multiple seasons to put him on the pay scale of the UFAs that have done so)

Really, I expect that Brad knows what he is doing and we should not see anything that is not justifiable. And Johnny's agent is probably doing what he thinks best to get money now, but hopefully recognizes the reality that their negotiating position is relatively weak.

[PeteMoss]

Anyone who complains about a player trying to get the most money possible and/or the team trying to sign a guy for the least money possible is out of their mind.

Why is either one a bad guy or 'me-first'? Expecting either side to just give in to the others demands is naive.

The Flames have leverage in the sense that Gaudreau has no other options. Gaudreau has leverage in the sense that he's by far the best offensive player on the team and drives more revenue in ticket sales and merchandise than any other player on the team. That's where the Tarasenko comparison's fall flat. They may be similar in production on the ice, but Gaudreau brings in more money to the team than all but the very top tier of the league.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Now that the NA team tourney is over, we shall see how things progress.

If Johnny's camp wants to be unreasonable, I don't mind if he sits for a while.

He is a unique player that has shown a lot so far. Over a short time frame. On the other hand, of course, the Flames have their own set of questions, only 2 years in the league, road performance, etc.

The Flames have the majority of the leverage due to his contract situation. So many RFA years.

If it is half a million AAV over 8 years, it is 4 million total as the disputed amount. Presumably his year 1 is at least 4 M. So if he sits, it can be a wash monetarily.

Johnny's camp should ask themselves questions such as:
Are the Flames such contenders this year that they can't afford to let him sit out for a while? Who has more to lose, me or the team?
They were, what, 26th last year? Matthew Tkachuk is a rookie. New coach, who is getting a second chance after a pretty poor first run.... new goalie, but who put up good stats, but in front of Hitchcock D. As much as Troy Brouwer likes where things are going, this season is far from a sure thing. The team is likely not a cup favourite now, so if there is one year they can afford to live without him, maybe this is it.

This is a big league negotiation, and the answer is not "Give him what he wants." If your negotiating position is such that you want to make a threat, you need to be able to follow through or you lose your credibility. You pick your lines and you pick your threats, but if the team has a ceiling, it has a ceiling. And if Johnny thinks he is bigger than the whole concept of RFA, there could be a situation where he can sit and think about it for days, months or years.

Obviously there are many other considerations, but Johnny has an impressive but limited resume, notable lack of achievements versus the players one may cite as comparables, little leverage in terms of contract status.

Hudler, while obviously not being a comparable, was top 10 in league scoring season before last, did that for 4 M or whatever, and likely won't see that payday again. Toews. Kane, even Croaby had cups before they got paid. Johnny was a good player on a bad team. So was Olli Jokinen once. (I object to many of those as comparables but the point is that Johnny has not shown enough over multiple seasons to put him on the pay scale of the UFAs that have done so)

Really, I expect that Brad knows what he is doing and we should not see anything that is not justifiable. And Johnny's agent is probably doing what he thinks best to get money now, but hopefully recognizes the reality that their negotiating position is relatively weak.

But... but.... but... he's an 80 point player! Give him what he wants! If you can't see that than you're a hater!


Jokes. Great post man.

[Vinny01]

Francis has made a good point that Murray Edwards is not about to be the owner that sets the new bar for players with 2 years experience. That is why I feel there is no chance Johnny gets $8M even $7.5 might be tough. I could see the flames standing firm at $7M for 8 years or the Gio cap for 7 years.

If Johnny and his agent convince the Flames to go 6 years then it wouldn't shock me to see the Forsberg contract get signed and Johnny makes less than Monahan.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Anyone who complains about a player trying to get the most money possible and/or the team trying to sign a guy for the least money possible is out of their mind.

Why is either one a bad guy or 'me-first'? Expecting either side to just give in to the others demands is naive.

The Flames have leverage in the sense that Gaudreau has no other options. Gaudreau has leverage in the sense that he's by far the best offensive player on the team and drives more revenue in ticket sales and merchandise than any other player on the team. That's where the Tarasenko comparison's fall flat. They may be similar in production on the ice, but Gaudreau brings in more money to the team than all but the very top tier of the league.

I have not seen the stats on revenue Johnny generates, please do share the source.

Never mind tickets, the Flames have pretty much sold out for years. Just the merch please and thanks.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I have not seen the stats on revenue Johnny generates, please do share the source.

Never mind tickets, the Flames have pretty much sold out for years. Just the merch please and thanks.

Source: Common sense.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Source: Common sense.

Common sense would dictate that in a market like Calgary, Johnny does very little to generate anyone any extra revenue. While I doubt he generates 0 incremental income for the Flames, I'm sure he sparks a handful of people to buy a jersey who might not, or taken in a game they might otherwise have not, but really in a hockey crazed market who fills the rink for the most part (with only minor blips that are more dictated by team performance or the economy than any one player) and almost every fan owns a jersey, Johnny doesn't exactly have much opportunity to grow the bottom line for a franchise like Calgary.

[PeteMoss]

I agree with that statement that it may not be a ton of money. But it is a true statement.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Source: Common sense.

Ok, didn't think it was based on anything tangible

Common sense - does this tell you that the jersey you see at the dome with number 13 was revenue driven by Johnny? I can see how people can think that.

Conversely, if you see a Gaudreau jersey at the dome, was that fan going to buy a flames jersey and happened to decide Johnny was the number and name that they preferred on the jersey, which they were going to buy anyway? Is there an actual spike in sales, or just a shifting in whichever number and name bar is bought.

I do know that Johnny was not on the top 10 jerseys league wide at the NHL store. So the common sense driven statement comparing him to the top of the league is not supported.

I personally don't think that the team would suffer from Gaudreau sitting out, if it came to that, as much as his brand and career would.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I agree with that statement that it may not be a ton of money. But it is a true statement.

Fair enough, but your point was his revenue generating ability gives him leverage. If the extra revenue he generates is not a meaningful number, and in Calgary it likely isn't, it's not really leverage.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The statement originally was: "Gaudreau brings in more money to the team than all but the very top tier of the league."

[transplant99]

Here are the top 10 selling jerseys for last year.


1. Jonathan Toews, Chicago Blackhawks

2. Patrick Kane, Chicago Blackhawks

3. Henrik Lundqvist, New York Rangers

4. Alex Ovechkin, Washington Capitals

5. Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh Penguins

6. Patrice Bergeron, Boston Bruins

7. Zach Parise, Minnesota Wild

8. Carey Price, Montreal Canadiens

9. Ryan McDonagh, New York Rangers

10. Connor McDavid, Edmonton Oilers

[CalgaryFan1988]

Ok, I'm calling out Gaudreauvertime.

You think Johnny is trending up and going to be the best player in the league this season? I say put your money where your mouth is.

If Gaudreau gets 90 or more points this season, I will donate $100 to CP. if he gets anything less than 90 points, you donate $100 to CP. Fair?

(FWIW I hope he gets 100 points)

[ClubFlames]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Ok, I'm calling out Gaudreauvertime.

You think Johnny is trending up and going to be the best player in the league this season? I say put your money where your mouth is.

If Gaudreau gets 90 or more points this season, I will donate $100 to CP. if he gets anything less than 90 points, you donate $100 to CP. Fair?

(FWIW I hope he gets 100 points)

I wouldn't count on him being here that long.