plan to ban possession of dogs in Calgary within 15 years

[flip]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Its not so much mob mentality as almost universal disgust/dismay/shock that a topic like this would come up masquerading as a serious topic. His premises are weak and can easily be applied to desirable things.

Its not because people aren't sipping the CP koolaid... I think most people here enjoy discourse that demonstrates difference of opinion.

Seriously, I don't agree that dogs should be banned, but as I've stated it is entirely realistic that in the semi near future more and more people who are like DESS will want to ban dogs. His points may not be perfect, but all of the lame analogies about homeless etc are just as lame as the analogies that people come up with for any argument.

We are only talking about dogs and nothing else. Your analogies are akin to anti gay marriage people using the bestiality claims about gay marriage and the doors it will open.

[browna]

Originally Posted by DESS

Okay, this is why I don't like dogs:

1. They are loud. I can hear them barking at night and I can hear them barking in the morning. If I walked outside and shouted randomly on a daily basis, the cops would be all over me. Why do dogs get away with it?

You start/drive a car in the morning or night? Use a lawn mower? Use powertools in your open garage? If so, you're contributing to the same, normal, neighbour hood noises your complaining about.

They are dangerous - not bear dangerous - but dangerous enough as outlined by the City here. Yes of course your dog isn't, but some are. In fact, there was an incident every day of the year with an agressive dog in Calgary last year. A low-incident year (according to the article), but unacceptable nevertheless. Obviously this only tracks the incidents reported, so it's safe to assume the rates are even higher.

Not bear dangerous? What about human dangerous? The city also consdiers Hallowe'en "dangerous" enough to put up this link. Your article proves that dog owners are steadily more responsible on the whole then they were 25 years ago, and maybe the dog brreds in this city are "calmer" too. There's also domestic violence incidents everyday...but many go unreported so surely the rates are higher.

Crap. People simply don't pick up after their dogs and it is absolutely disgusting. Kudos to you if you do, but enough don't that it is an obvious problem.

Yeah, crap is a problem if its not picked up in public places, and those people should be taken to task, as are those who litter without regard for those around people....and there are more than this city's fair sure of casual litterers out there.

Urine. I've never seen any dog owner, no matter how responsible, pick up their dog's urine. If I whipped out my schlong in the middle of a park where children were playing to take a leak, people would freak. Let's put the public nudity aspect of that example aside, people would be disgusted that I was peeing where kids were playing. I find it equally disgusting to know and see dogs do this, but it is somehow socially unacceptable to call out a guy for letting his dog piss whereever. It's outrageous, frankly.

Outrageous? Give me a break, dog urine is organic and mostly water. The pesticides the city puts on those same parks is 10x as toxic and dangerous (although still perfectly safe) as dog urine that's absorbed into the ground as quickly as the equivalent. Sneezing and spitting should be outlawed too, for the liquids in introduces into those same parks. Or cooler chests of ice that may contain traces of beer, pop, or meat juice on summer barbeques.

They're dirty and they smell bad.

To who? Quite the big brush your painting with....and there are a lot less excuses for people who smell 10 times as worse and are more then dog dirty, when drug stores are filled with personal cleaning products.

You know, I understand people love their dogs and that's great. And I can also see that it would be unfair to take a dog out of somebody's home - both to the dog and to the owner.

A more realistic solution to this pest problem we have would be a city-funded initiative to spay and neuter every dog in the city, ban the sale/possession of any new dogs, and just wait for the current generation of dogs to pass away. Within say 15 years the problem would be solved.

Realistic? LOL Quite the case of canine clensing to solve the "problem". So by extension, lets close all the animal hospitals in this city too..if your animal gets sick, let it die. If some sicko kills the neighbours dog...."meh", right?

I would be curious to know if anyone else would be interested in this plan. Perhaps we could start a petition or do something to get the ball rolling on this. Obviously it will be a tough thing to achieve, but I think if we are compassionate to the current dog owners, make exceptions for work dogs, etc. this may have legs. It will certainly get support from some people, I'm just not sure how many at this point.

I think an Internet petition has been proved time and again to get tangible result on such actions. Feel free to take as long as you like researching all those internet petition sites.


Truly, truly, unbelivable.

You don't have to like dogs, or want anything to do with dogs, but to infringe on people's rights and freedoms to possess domesticated animals is about as misguided opinion as I've seen on this board.

[Azure]

Ban the noises of the city too.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flip

It is still a somewhat reasonable claim.

Like I said earlier in 20-50 years I honestly think that dogs will be banned or limited/restricted, to at least a certain extent, in most huge, highly populated/densely populated areas. And rightfully so I might add. I don't think having a dog in Tokyo is really feasible. They have a hard enough time finding place for people let alone dogs. Calgary could one day be like this.

There's enough open space in this city for people to walk thier dogs. Even then you don't need a park for that. I see people everyday walking thier dogs up and down my street. I see no problem with that and enjoy when people stop and i get to pet thier dogs.

[Traditional_Ale]

Holy crap DESS!!!

I haven't been on CP all that long, but I can never remember someone showing up and basically posting stuff that would normally have me up in arms, but the sheer absurdity of what you post is making me laugh and laugh. First teachers, which I want to become, and now dogs (that I love dearly)???

Man, I hope you don't get banned because you are seriously good stuff.

[PsYcNeT]

Dog pictures for levity.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

By that logic there would be very few dogs in densely populated urban areas in North America--like New York City. In fact, NY is full of dogs.

Population density doesn't have much to do with it. People will have dogs as long as they want to have dogs. Dogs need exercise, not space.

Yes but more importantly people need space. If they don't have it they will remove the quickest obstacles that are either also vieing for space or eliminating things that are encroaching on their space.

And in the near future places like NY may have limits on animals that are more strict that ours, if they don't already. Like I said it may come out of necessity. More people in NY likely live in appartments, condos etc so they are certainly adhering to some sort of restrictions already, just they are basically imposed by the tenants, not the government.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by stang

Even worse.. they grow into drug dealers, murders, and rapists

And what do we do with drug dealers, murderers and rapists? I'm pretty sure they don't get a biscuit from the McDonald's drive through and a scratch behind the ears.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by DESS

Children grow out of that stage. Dogs never do. There's a huge difference.

You're right. They turn into adults. One need only view a bar/club at closing time to see all of the things you hate about dogs being done by a supposedly advanced species. Hobos do it all 24/7.

Surely, Stage 2 after all the poor dogs are buried in unmarked graves isn't to eliminate the drunk and homeless? Or are you going to say next that alcohol must be banned?

Or, for something Flames related... Red Mile must be banned. How dare people assemble and make noise at 10:30-12 at night to celebrate! It offends my ears Crowds are smelly and people tend to have a hard time finding places to pee at that hour and find quiet trees/corners... Now, the Stampede must be banned too. Fireworks are offensive. Horse poo is offensive. Little Donuts make people fat. Its too crowded, and it smells like BO. That means, Calgary Transit must go!

See what I'm getting at. We simply can't go around and ban every little thing that any one person doesn't like. Nothing would remain. There's already way too many whiners and NIMBYs in Calgary making life miserable for everyone over stupid little things. I guess that's why so many of us got annoyed with this thread.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Dion

There's enough open space in this city for people to walk thier dogs. Even then you don't need a park for that. I see people everyday walking thier dogs up and down my street. I see no problem with that and enjoy when people stop and i get to pet thier dogs.

Ok, but what does that have to do with our city in 20-50 years running so high on pop. density that dogs could become a nuisance? Try walking your dog in downtown NY at 5pm and let me know how that goes.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by DESS

And what do we do with drug dealers, murderers and rapists? I'm pretty sure they don't get a biscuit from the McDonald's drive through and a scratch behind the ears.

You obviously don't know much about the Canadian justice system.

[Dion]

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by flip

Ok, but what does that have to do with our city in 20-50 years running so high on pop. density that dogs could become a nuisance? Try walking your dog in downtown NY at 5pm and let me know how that goes.

New York has almost 20M people and many people that live in that city own dogs. Of course the downtown area is going to be busy, it's even like that in little Victoria. People take their dogs for walks in parks, not downtown concrete areas.

How could one city outlaw an animal like that, wouldn't they need Provincial if not Federal approval?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flip

Ok, but what does that have to do with our city in 20-50 years running so high on pop. density that dogs could become a nuisance? Try walking your dog in downtown NY at 5pm and let me know how that goes.

If i lived in downtown NY i wouldn't be owning a dog. And if i was a dog owner i wouldn't be living downtown. There are the suburbs you know.

If worse comes to worse then......

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by flip

Yes but more importantly people need space. If they don't have it they will remove the quickest obstacles that are either also vieing for space or eliminating things that are encroaching on their space.

And in the near future places like NY may have limits on animals that are more strict that ours, if they don't already. Like I said it may come out of necessity. More people in NY likely live in appartments, condos etc so they are certainly adhering to some sort of restrictions already, just they are basically imposed by the tenants, not the government.

NY is widely considered the most dog-friendly city in North America. The point was that your supposition that greater population density=fewer dogs is just wrong on its face.

Unless what you're suggesting is that people who choose to share their space with dogs will be subject to "limits" from some higher authority. But... that presumes that in the future we will not only live with higher population density but also in a dictatorship.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

You're right. They turn into adults. One need only view a bar/club at closing time to see all of the things you hate about dogs being done by a supposedly advanced species. Hobos do it all 24/7.

Surely, Stage 2 after all the poor dogs are buried in unmarked graves isn't to eliminate the drunk and homeless? Or are you going to say next that alcohol must be banned?

Or, for something Flames related... Red Mile must be banned. How dare people assemble and make noise at 10:30-12 at night to celebrate! It offends my ears Crowds are smelly and people tend to have a hard time finding places to pee at that hour and find quiet trees/corners... Now, the Stampede must be banned too. Fireworks are offensive. Horse poo is offensive. Little Donuts make people fat. Its too crowded, and it smells like BO. That means, Calgary Transit must go!

See what I'm getting at. We simply can't go around banning things every person doesn't like. Nothing would remain. There's already way too many whiners and NIMBYs in Calgary making life miserable for everyone over stupid little things. I guess that's why so many of us got annoyed with this thread.

What are you talking about? We ban things all the time. There's a million things you're not legally allowed to do that a lot of people wouldn't mind you doing. For the people that do mind, laws have been made to keep you at bay.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by DESS

What are you talking about? We ban things all the time. There's a million things you're not legally allowed to do that a lot of people wouldn't mind you doing. For the people that do mind, laws have been made to keep you at bay.

Like...

[FlamesKickAss]

how about we get rid of ridiculously stupid people that think about themselves and only themselves?

if there is a dog that barks and barks and barks call 311 and send in a complaint.

this is the most absurd thing i have ever seen though in my 26 years on this planet

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by DESS

What are you talking about? We ban things all the time. There's a million things you're not legally allowed to do that a lot of people wouldn't mind you doing. For the people that do mind, laws have been made to keep you at bay.

We go banning/limiting things that make sense, and that serve a purpose as a society, not a cantankerous sub-minority, but of course, the law isn't perfect. However, comparing the merits of laws to something that would at best be a by-law is ridiculous.

Yes, there are cases where tiny groups of idiots force their will on society and something that lacks sense and purpose have a by-law slapped on them, but that's a weakness in our system that exists only due to apathy in local politics. Something as big as this wouldn't escape undetected.

As clearly demonstrated, this isn't legislating something that has sensibility and purpose. This is something that makes no sense and has little purpose other than to incite anger in the community. Its on the same level as banning the Stampede because its noisy and offensive to its neighbors.

Its definitely not an excuse to trample on people's property rights.

[PsYcNeT]

Allow me to add group e

e) HAY GUYS I JUST WANDERED INTO THIS THREAD AND READ NOTHING BUT THE THREAD TITLE/OP, AND I'M INDIGNANT TO THE POINT OF MORALLY RIGHTEOUS CONDEMNATION!!!!