A Scientist Debunks The 'Magic' Of Vitamins And Supplements

[ernie]

Even if it's a placebo effect then who cares!

Well, I hate to point it out but it's the REAL, ACTUAL effects that they may be causing that are the problem.

Now of course arguing is almost pointless. You won't convince them with any mountain of real scientific evidence and data. Even if they come down with the cancer(s) linked to such activities they will tend to believe that because they didn't have a flu or cold for a few years that without the protocol that they followed they would have had the cancer earlier (and of course that isn't to say THEY have would have a direct link in their particualr case).

Real data is what it is. It says what it says. Anecdotes aren't data and only say what one wants them to say. Heck without vitamin supplements I went nearly 15 years without a stomach flu or noticeable cold. Then I had kids....

[Coach]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't think I have an unusual immune system. I am in good shape. I eat well. Maybe because I have a job where I come into contact with many people every day, and children that come into contact with many other kids at school.

To not be sick for years - you would have to be a hermit or a bubble boy?

That probably depends on your personal definition of sick. It takes a lot for me to skip work or the like for being sick. And unless I'm THAT sick I don't really consider myself to be sick. There are people that would give in earlier, and people that would give in later. But I've definitely gone a year or so without being sick before.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Muta

I bet you pat yourself on the back and smile while looking out a window after posting comments like these.

Okay now you're not even keeping on topic, you rascal.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The problem with that statement is the question of what if the ingredients of the placebo are actually detrimental over the long term as is potentially the case with multivitamins.

There is no problem with that statement unless you're more qualified than the doctor who told me I should start taking multi-vitamins? Didn't think so. Has it been proven that multi-vitamins are detrimental over the long term? or is it only speculative? Because science has proven over and over that multi vitamins have wonderful positive effects.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Because science has proven over and over that multi vitamins have wonderful positive effects.

Show, don't tell. I'm not aware of a landslide of quality positive studies, and I have looked.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=vitamins

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-multivitamin/

The Medical Letter is an independent unbiased source written by a group of experts who review all the literature and provide periodic updates. Their most recent review of vitamin supplements (Vol 47 No 1213, p.57-8, July 18, 2005) concluded,

Supplements are necessary to assure adequate intake of folic acid in young women and possibly of vitamins D and B12 in the elderly. There is no convincing evidence that taking supplements of vitamin C prevents any disease except scurvy. Women should not take vitamin A supplements during pregnancy or after menopause. No one should take high dose beta carotene supplements. A balanced diet rich in fruits and vegetables may be safer than taking vitamin supplements. No biologically active substance taken for a long term can be assumed to be free of risk.

That’s it. That’s all science has to say about vitamins for the general population. Of course there are specific indications for individual patients with various health conditions.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...and-mortality/

As is typical of observational studies, the results are somewhat mixed, depending upon the details of how such studies are conducted. There are also many variables to consider – which vitamins and which doses in which populations with what health conditions. There is therefore a great deal of noise in the data. I do not think we can conclude that the vitamins listed above actually increase risk of mortality. But neither can we conclude that there is any health benefit for routine supplementation. Years of research have failed to provide such evidence, and the mixed results we are seeing is consistent with there being no or only a small effect.

Based upon the totality of evidence the best current recommendation is to have a well-rounded diet with sufficient fruits and vegetables, which should be able to provide most people with all the micronutrients they require. There is no evidence to support routine supplementation. There is also reason to avoid taking megadoses of vitamins, as this can cause toxicity, and even short of toxicity the evidence becomes more compelling at higher doses of the risks of supplementation.

But there are also many situations in which targeted supplementation is evidence-based and appropriate.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by jammies

Oh, sorry, is it more like the Batsignal? A giant "MUTA!!!" lights up the sky, and you know to leap to your keyboard? I assume there must be some method whereby Ozy invokes you when he finds himself out-interneted. Do tell, I'm sure it'd be useful for beginning superheros everywhere who are dying to know.

If I was a superhero, I'd be Batman! Good looking, rich, cunning, powerful.

You'd be Mr. Satan from Dragonball Z.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by troutman

Show, don't tell. I'm not aware of a landslide of quality positive studies, and I have looked.

So my doctor and thousands of other doctors tell their patients to take multi-vitamins for the taste? Because I did love the Fred Flinstone ones as a kid.

[DuffMan]

I take a multi vitamin, Omega 3, and Vitamin C every day, and I get sick about once every 3 years, and this is with a wife who works in a school full of disease carrying vermin and a kid in school.
I also think the 4 beer/day avg. helps too, but I know the multi;s etc. help.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

So my doctor and thousands of other doctors tell their patients to take multi-vitamins for the taste? Because I did love the Fred Flinstone ones as a kid.

Appeal to authority pales in comparison to hard data.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Appeal to authority pales in comparison to hard data.

Post the hard data please. Or do you have to buy this "scientist's" book?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Appeal to authority pales in comparison to hard data.

You're starting to sound like Alex Jones . . .

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Muta

If I was a superhero, I'd be Batman! Good looking, rich, cunning, powerful.

You'd be Mr. Satan from Dragonball Z.

I made the mistake of looking "Mr. Satan" up on google, since I have no idea who he is, and I see that while the level of discourse here sometimes gets juvenile, at least we're not arguing issues like this.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Isn't it actually healthy to be sick every once in awhile? Isn't it good to have your body naturally fight illness and develop antibodies that can be useful in fighting other and larger viruses?

This isn't meant to be inflammatory, but is just a belief that I have had for a long time.

[MissAvery16]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't think I have an unusual immune system. I am in good shape. I eat well. Maybe because I have a job where I come into contact with many people every day, and children that come into contact with many other kids at school.

To not be sick for years - you would have to be a hermit or a bubble boy?

or indestructible..

Spoiler!

[Ozy_Flame]

George Carlin:

You know why our bodies were well oiled machines? Because we swam in raw sewage! We were tempered in raw ####! Polio never had a prayer!

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Post the hard data please. Or do you have to buy this "scientist's" book?

Burden of proof is on the claimant.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Burden of proof is on the claimant.

"Appeal to authority pales in comparison to hard data."


You claimed this. Care to support it?

[puckluck2]

And for the record I have never been a fan of taking vitamins to help you make up for your unhealthy lifestyle as I think getting your vitamins naturally is the healthiest but the thread title is misleading. This scientist doesn't debunk anything, he has theories from studies. For every one of these scientists you'll get 10 scientists who have a different positive theory from different studies.

The only problem I have with this thread is the complete arrogance by some posters. You're a nurse or an engineer or whatever you are you're not in any authority to tell people that all multivitamins are bad especially when there are doctors still advising their patients to take them.

Sure, maybe Ozy Flame taking vitamins and not getting sick at the same time was a complete coincidence but to him it worked whether it was placebo or not and if there were any real significant studies about the negative effects on multi vitamins it would be looked in a bigger negative light than it is.

This scientist looks more worried about being in the public eye and selling his book to be honest.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

"Appeal to authority pales in comparison to hard data."


You claimed this. Care to support it?

Support what? That I want to see the data (much as Troutman requested) that "science has proven over and over that multi vitamins have wonderful positive effects".

He dodged the request for data by citing anecdotal appeal to authority, which isn't an argument.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Burden of proof is on the claimant.

I never claimed anything. I simply said my doctor advised me to take some. My doctor is well trained and has a tremendous amount of education so I'll trust he isn't going to advise something he wouldn't feel comfortable with taking himself.