Suicide jumper

[J pold]

Originally Posted by fotze

I wonder if Jeffre Dahmer committed suicide at 16 how his world would be. Sometimes it may actually be for the best. .

Well we wouldn’t have many good horror movies that’s for sure

[FireFly]

Part of what likely helped you through your problems Jordan is the fact that you know how it does affect those left behind. If I've never seen or dealt with the aftermath of a suicide, I don't really know how my family will deal with it. You did. In the back of your head it wasn't that you couldn't put your family through it, it's that you couldn't put your family through it AGAIN. What if your Aunt didn't commit suicide? You wouldn't have had that life experience to tell you not to do it.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Part of what likely helped you through your problems Jordan is the fact that you know how it does affect those left behind. If I've never seen or dealt with the aftermath of a suicide, I don't really know how my family will deal with it. You did. In the back of your head it wasn't that you couldn't put your family through it, it's that you couldn't put your family through it AGAIN. What if your Aunt didn't commit suicide? You wouldn't have had that life experience to tell you not to do it.

Very true.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Part of what likely helped you through your problems Jordan is the fact that you know how it does affect those left behind. If I've never seen or dealt with the aftermath of a suicide, I don't really know how my family will deal with it. You did. In the back of your head it wasn't that you couldn't put your family through it, it's that you couldn't put your family through it AGAIN. What if your Aunt didn't commit suicide? You wouldn't have had that life experience to tell you not to do it.

Having been right on the edge myself, I am not going to judge someone else who commits suicide. Yeah, it is selfish, but when you are on the other side, convinced that you are nothing more than a burden to your loved ones, your mind can convince you that killing yourself would actually be a relief to them.

Its easy to be high and mighty, and to sit there on your pedestal judging people weaker than you Jordon, but I can guarantee that your experience is not at all comparable to anyone else's. We're all different, we all face different challenges, and we all handle them differently.

It took a murder in my family to snap me back toward reality, however that same murder pushed an uncle over the edge. I've seen so much death and suffering that I am well aware that now two people handle lifes challenges the same way. Some people have strength enough to overcome, some don't.

I am convinced that my uncle is finally at peace. That same peace continues to elude me, but I have chosen a different path. That doesn't make me better than he was. Simply makes me different.

[Delthefunky]

I thought I heard somewhere that there are hundreds of Suicides a year in Calgary... just not that public for obvious reasons. While I would assume the number 1 way would be to OD on some pills in the medicine cabinet, A LOT thrown themselves in front of trains.

Suicide is cowardly in my eyes, however you have to feel sorry for the victims because it is an illness. Happiness and Sadness and all the feelings you have are just feelings induced by chemicals. Some people have lost touch with what happiness is.

Depression is like Cancer, it just gets worse and worse until some people either accept it and become miserable their whole lives and others just kill themselves.

[sclitheroe]

Was it Bromley Square, by any chance? Cause it's not uncommon in that building, some truly nasty stuff has gone on there, including several jumpers when I lived there.

[Jayems]

Its a proven fact that men take a suicidal route that there are not many ways to turn back (IE Gun, jumping, running infront of a car).

Women tend to take another route.... where there are more options to be "saved" be it pills, alcohol, and other things.

Most people want help, and thats what hospitals are for. People can be forced to get help and the police have the authority to take someone against their will to the hospital and get "forced" help. (Form 10).

Most "suicidal" people are under the influence and once they sober up, most are pretty coherent and want the help. Some you just can't help.

One guy showed up to the hospital, it was packed, didn't get seen right away, made a verbal contract to stay with the nurse, then ran out and nose dived into a c-train.

The selfish people are the ones who take innocent people along for the ride (IE the c-train driver, the cabi whos car he jumps on, etc).

I feel truley sorry for the ones that really need help and don't get it, while the ones who are constantly attention seeking by "attempting" suicide and ending up costing the health care system thousands even millions of dollars because they know all they have to do is say the 5 special words. "I want to kill myself".

This is how people going to jail , well , cells... get out of it. They say they are suicidal, and get to stay in a comfy hospital bed, and are wasting the help that is given to them when it could be used on serious cases... not just a bum abusing the system.

Next time you wait for 8 hours at the hospital, know that your bed is being taken by some of these people. Its also taken by people who bring themselves to the hospital for a simple cough... a cold...

god i could rant all day.

[the-rasta-masta]

A couple of years ago a guy jumped off the building next to the one my dad worked in. My dad parks in the alley, and was unfortunate enough to not only witness the guy jump off, but to see him land 5 feet away from his brand new BMW convertible. To make matters worse he had left the top down since he was just running in to his office to make a quick pickup....Needless to say it was not a fun cleanup, and he sold the car a week later.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Calgary Flames

I probably have more experience on this subject than 90% of people on here. Help is there, it's hard to make the decision because at the time you feel crazy but it's available to everyone in this country.

There is no excuse to commit suicide, i'm sorry.

This isn't gonna be another Jordon vs. Calgarypuck, is it?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Calgary Flames

I'm not even going to comment on this... I know what I have gone through, what i've experience and my family members have experienced.

As i'm sure you have too... but adding validity to my opinion, yes I think it does. Moreso than yours? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares? I'm just giving my opinion, nobody's opinions are more "valid" than anyone elses, their opinions are their own.

I'm sorry Jordon, but no.

Here's an example: The girl I'm currently dating. Both parents divorsed when they were 4, blamed it on her. Nasty court battle, where she didn't see her father for 10 years. At 6 years old, her brother was born... to a family where the mother would be frequent seizures and other serious medical problems that, as a 6 year old, she had to take care of. She would come home from grade 1 with her mother having seizures on the floor with a pool of blood around her trying to commit suicide, and would have to not only care for her mother while the ambulance came, but take care of the baby at the same time. At 14, her mom asked her to sign something saying her dad did something he didn't do, and she refused. This went to coart, she played the psychologist (yes, the ones that can apperently help anyone) like a fiddle, her mother lost and disowned her. She came home from school (grade 9 or 10) and found her stuff on the front lawn with a nasty note from her mother - she had been kicked out. At grade 10, she had moved out on her own and was living fine (fine = still ok, but getting periodic hate mail from her mother and her mother's family) on her own until grade 12 (where, while working 3 jobs and still getting validictorian) when her father stole $2000 from her bank account (which was never returned). For 1 year, she ate nothing but peanut butter her grandma gave to her, and the occational loaf of bread. At one point, she had $150 in her bank account... for living AND food. She hasn't talked to her mother in 5 years. She managed to live through it without never having to contemplate suicide (and, is currently finishing her Engineering degree and taking the LSAT's to go into law), but if I were in her shoes, I'd have given up along time ago.

You don't have it hard, Jordon. Trust me. You really arn't in the right to critisize anyone.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

You don't have it hard, Jordon. Trust me. You really arn't in the right to critisize anyone.

I hate to play devil's advocate here but who's to say he doesn't have it hard? I mean surely, your girlfriend must be one helluva a survivor and I tip my hat to anyone who has that much determination and courage.

But to say one's hardships is worse than anothers? I don't know...to one, things may seem easy, to another they may seem like the hardest thing on earth.

Things are very relative to the situation you're in...just cause something you'd think should be a walk in the park or a set up for faliure for one doesn't mean it'll be the same for the next.

[Prototype]

I'm not for suicide, but I do believe that there are 2 people who have the right to decide when it's "game over". Yourself, and the man upstairs.

I've thought about it many a time, but there's nothing in this world that can convince me that it's the answer to any of my problems. Many of the reasons have been stated in this post.

The one thing I can understand is how people get crucified on this board for posting opinions, and it's mainly the usual suspects. You guys sure know how to bring a thread down. Why don't you jump in the Nintendo DS thread and bitch at eachother.

Freedom of expression should be something we celebrate here, especially when opinion is asked, and especially in a thread that deals with such mature material such as this one.

I'm not jumping on anyone in particular here, but it seems like everytime I read in off topic, there's some sort of war going on. Will it stop because of me... probably not. Have I been pulled into this war.... probably. Do I care. Not really.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but it's really getting on my nerves. Thanks for reading atleast. And now, back to the thread at hand...

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Was it Bromley Square, by any chance? Cause it's not uncommon in that building, some truly nasty stuff has gone on there, including several jumpers when I lived there.

That or Mount Royal Apartments above Bottlescrew Bill's.

A relative of mine working TTC subway security has sworn off red meat. Dealing with the aftermath of jumpers has permanently turned his stomach away from that.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I'm sorry Jordon, but no.

Here's an example: The girl I'm currently dating. Both parents divorsed when they were 4, blamed it on her. Nasty court battle, where she didn't see her father for 10 years. At 6 years old, her brother was born... to a family where the mother would be frequent seizures and other serious medical problems that, as a 6 year old, she had to take care of. She would come home from grade 1 with her mother having seizures on the floor with a pool of blood around her trying to commit suicide, and would have to not only care for her mother while the ambulance came, but take care of the baby at the same time. At 14, her mom asked her to sign something saying her dad did something he didn't do, and she refused. This went to coart, she played the psychologist (yes, the ones that can apperently help anyone) like a fiddle, her mother lost and disowned her. She came home from school (grade 9 or 10) and found her stuff on the front lawn with a nasty note from her mother - she had been kicked out. At grade 10, she had moved out on her own and was living fine (fine = still ok, but getting periodic hate mail from her mother and her mother's family) on her own until grade 12 (where, while working 3 jobs and still getting validictorian) when her father stole $2000 from her bank account (which was never returned). For 1 year, she ate nothing but peanut butter her grandma gave to her, and the occational loaf of bread. At one point, she had $150 in her bank account... for living AND food. She hasn't talked to her mother in 5 years. She managed to live through it without never having to contemplate suicide (and, is currently finishing her Engineering degree and taking the LSAT's to go into law), but if I were in her shoes, I'd have given up along time ago.

You don't have it hard, Jordon. Trust me. You really arn't in the right to critisize anyone.

This isn't a contest and i'm not going to give you details of my life here

I don't know how you percieve me on this site, but it's clear you don't know **** about me Mr. Phanuthier.

I really don't like the way this thread has turned out.. Me against the world that is CP yet again, a bunch of nobodies who really are a bunch of strangers to the real me.

I only feel bad for a suicide victim because they are unable to make a logical choice once they reach that point, some people are able to say "There is no way I'll ever come to that. Life is so precious to throw away" others unfortunately cannot, which is sad...

Personally, i'm at a different and better stage of my life, from seeing a psyciatrist I've dealt with what I had too and learned alot that will help me live a positive and full life in the future. That's all I care about.

With that, i'll leave this thread to other opinions. Mine is known and the reaction doesn't suprise me, but I don't really care. Ignorance truly is bliss, and I enjoy ever moment of it

[Nehkara]

Jordon, I know a lot of people are jumping on you in this thread for what you said but I, for one, understand your opinion and accept that's the way you feel... you have every right to it. I am glad you found your way out of depression. Reading this thread has made me understand you better.

You can add me to the long list of people who have been there. My problems weren't that big, looking back, but at the time they seemed huge and ugly and, honestly, I couldn't deal. I've gone up and down, back and forth, for years... I've found that living my life can make me very very happy and at other times I find myself scraping the bottom of the barrel to see if I can go down any further. I think a lot of people are like this and it can be hard to keep yourself on an even keel.

I think the worst part for me is that I understand what it takes for me to feel perfectly content with life... I have a horrible time translating that into mustering up the courage and convincing myself to go out and do it.

When I contemplated suicide I was very young and my friends helped me. People find strength from everywhere... and unfortunately some find it from nowhere.

Scrambler: I can't even imagine what you experienced. I hope you are okay, and even if you think you might not be... talk to someone about it. Professional or good friend.

I hope the jumper found the peace he was looking for.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Prottotype

The one thing I can understand is how people get crucified on this board for posting opinions, and it's mainly the usual suspects. You guys sure know how to bring a thread down. Why don't you jump in the Nintendo DS thread and bitch at eachother.

Freedom of expression should be something we celebrate here, especially when opinion is asked, and especially in a thread that deals with such mature material such as this one.

Nobody has denied anyone their freedom of expression. Certain parties get jumped on becuase they are arrogant enough to think they have a monopoly on the truth, but nobody has told that party they cannot express an opnion.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Nobody has denied anyone their freedom of expression. Certain parties get jumped on becuase they are arrogant enough to think they have a monopoly on the truth, but nobody has told that party they cannot express an opnion.

Exactly. To say there is help out there, fine. But to arrogantly speak as though you've reached self-actualization, thats what I have a problem with. You'd think Jordon was Gandhi or something the way he talks.

I've done alot of volunteer work at various hospitals and distress centers, ie. the people JORDON turns to. I've had friends come to me in tears speaking about suicide, and through hours of training for suicide prevention, I have managed to get them out of it. I've also had friends kill themselves, including one who I saw hanging from the ceiling. The way Jordon talks, and such little sympathy he has, its clearly evident that he has no idea. He holds psychologists in such high regard, but while some are good, its no guerentee that they're gonna be able to help you. To be able to reach the level of self-actualization, you should be able to understand both sides of the situation. Clearly, Jordon's arrogant egocentricism shows that he has very, very little idea.

Jordon, you're a good kid and all... but when it comes to matters like this, its really a "who would hire a student in the summer?"

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Exactly. To say there is help out there, fine. But to arrogantly speak as though you've reached self-actualization, thats what I have a problem with. You'd think Jordon was Gandhi or something the way he talks.

I think you are wrong for jumping on Jordon here. I think he explained sufficiently that what is percieved as arrogance is self confidence and pride, what he needed/used to lift himself up out of depression. That's fine by me, he's not hurting anyone and he has many good points. He might not be totally correct in everything he says but most people's opinions aren't exactly gospel. He is just supporting what he believes.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I think you are wrong for jumping on Jordon here. I think he explained sufficiently that what is percieved as arrogance is self confidence and pride, what he needed/used to lift himself up out of depression. That's fine by me, he's not hurting anyone and he has many good points. He might not be totally correct in everything he says but most people's opinions aren't exactly gospel. He is just supporting what he believes.

Self-confidence and pride is fine, he can speak that he was able to get out of it (which, kudos, because I have a really hard time getting myself out of a slump). I have no problem with promoting the fact that there is help out there, but what I have a problem with is that he thinks every case is solvable, everyone can be helped and if you committed suicide, you are being selfish and inconsiderate. Tell that to someone from Singapore or strict families in Taiwan. Or an Indian girl who accidently gets pregnant before marriage. There are many cases where under extreme circumstances, I can understand why someone would give up.

If he can have his opinion, I can have mine. I don't think anyone should be in the right to chastize another's actions under intorerable circumstances. He might not be sympathetic to them, because he believes he's reached the point of self-actualization, but to critisize,I think I'm in the right to critisize his egocentric beliefs.

[Neeper]

I think Jordon can feel how he wants because of his experience, but not every one is as strong as you, and you have to realize that.

back on topic:

If that was me who saw what you saw, Scrambler, I would have to look for help. I feel bad for you to have to witness what you did. Even watching the ONE beheading video made me so sick for months. I can't imagine what seeing someone jump would do to me.