Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[The Boy Wonder]

It’s incredible how short of a leash bennett has with this coaching staff. Especially since he has outplayed Derek Ryan since the allstar break and still cannot even get a shot at more than 10 minutes of ice.

If that is all the flames want to do with him it’s better to trade him while some other teams see the potential and may still pay a bit for it rather than let him sit on the bench while Derek ####ing Ryan does nothing

[Flamenspiel]

^yep, it’s 4th line Ryan again. He should be used as a face-off specialist, has lost a lot of speed this year. Bennett is clearly better now.

[Harry Lime]

Bennett is clearly a centreman.

Rookie year, I completely approve of putting him on Backlunds wing to learn the game. He needed work on the defensive side, and they were skipping the AHL.

Over the next 29 years, he has been tried at centre a number of times, for a couple of games here, a few shifts there.

Finally, in his third decade as a Flame, he gets a chance a centre for a half dozen games, and it all comes together. The offensive zone penalties go away. He starts using his linemates. He is defensively sound.

Great success!

Annnnnd, back to fourth line LW, at 8 minutes a night. I'm sure that his confidence level is fine. Negative reinforcement is a valid coaching strategy. I'm just unsure what he is supposed to be learning.

[SeanCharles]

I’m sick of Bennett on the 4th line too..

He and Dube should be the foundation of our 3rd line.

[dino7c]

Why can't Bennett dominate lower lines/pairings though?

Because he isn't that good? Guy is barely noticeable

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Why can't Bennett dominate lower lines/pairings though?

Because he isn't that good? Guy is barely noticeable

He’s playing with replacement level players on a regular basis.

Jankowski and Reider aren’t very good at anything besides killing penalties.

[really?]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Why can't Bennett dominate lower lines/pairings though?

Because he isn't that good? Guy is barely noticeable

Big fan of Sam Bennett's, but that is a good point. He has to own a portion of his predicament. While there doesn't seem to be a plan with him, the fact that he only shows in flashes tells me something other than deployment is off. There are times he looks phenomenal in 20 foot increments, and that is how the game is played today. Unfortunately that doesn't happen every night, or even consistently. I still think he turns into a real good top six center, but it's on him at this point.

In fairness to Sam though, I'm not sure there's a center on the roster that would look much different if they were utilized in the same manner.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

He’s playing with replacement level players on a regular basis.

Jankowski and Reider aren’t very good at anything besides killing penalties.

I worry he is a replacement level player himself...would the Flames even miss him?

I notice Reider a lot more than Bennett because of his speed, their point totals are about the same

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Joborule

....(Clip)...

Who the #### is going to produce when Janko and Reider/Rinaldo are your linemates? ...(clip).....

I’d just like to point out that you could easily make a case for substituting Bennett for Jankowski in that sentence, like this:
“Who the #### is going to produce when Bennett and Reider/Rinaldo are your linemates?“
Not saying he’s earned it, but despite showing flashes of skill, Jankowski has had far less opportunity to play with linemates with a modicum of scoring ability than Bennett has.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by AT77

He's been given chances to produce offensively with top 6 linemates over the years and he hasn't done so. Those who are still holding on to the false belief that he will breakout eventually, are simply dreaming at this point. He sucks, he's not what we hoped for, especially for a 4th overall pick. He's a bottom 6 guy for the rest of his career.

This refrain gets trotted out all the time...I always ask, but nobody can ever point to any specific game(s) as evidence. I don't mind digging through some game reports and shift charts if someone can point to an approx period where these grand sustained experiment(s) are supposed to have taken place?


Taking several years to develop into a sustainable C is not a new phenomenon. Look no further than Mikael Backlund (or countless other examples). People have no problem making patience based arguments for a guy like Hanifin, and pointing out how many NHL games he's played to excuse his seemingly decreased rate of development (arguments I'm fine with).

Even if he is ceiling is a #3C, that is still a pretty darn important role.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ people trot it out but it’s BS.

His linemates and productivity by season quarter are here
https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/sam-bennett

He needs to seriously consider for what he is paying his agent

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ people trot it out but it’s BS.

His linemates and productivity by season quarter are here
https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/sam-bennett

He needs to seriously consider for what he is paying his agent

If I'm reading this right, this link says he played 24% of his even strength icetime with tkachuk and backlund last year, where he produced 33% of his offense.

Tkachuk and backlund played 17% of their minutes last year with Bennett and produced 11% of their points in those minutes.

So that's about 20 games in the spot mangiapane has been in. Bennett predictably saw his point totals shoot up, but he was a drag on his linemates.

This year mangiapane has played 40% of his minutes with them and produced 38% of his points there. Backlund has played 34% of minutes with mangiapane and produced 51% of his offense with him.

What's best for Bennett and what's best for the team are often in conflict which is why Bennett gets the leftover minutes; there are better performing line combos that take priority over getting Bennett icetime.

[Lil Pedro]

I think it's time him and the team part ways in the offseason. Clearly it isn't a fit for either side and he's a drain on their cap for the little that he provides. Not going to miss the dumb offensive zone penalties or his weak attempts to put it thru a defenders legs on a 1-on-1. Guy has a lot of the tools but a very limited tool box.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What's best for Bennett and what's best for the team are often in conflict which is why Bennett gets the leftover minutes; there are better performing line combos that take priority over getting Bennett icetime.

I think this is really it. Bennett doesn't seem to have tremendous chemistry with anybody, which probably has something to do with his do-it-yourself approach to the game.

Even so, there were some flashes with Dube (who IMO has something Bennett lacks, in that he has the vision and ability to make everyone he plays with better). Ryan isn't getting any younger, so it seems to make sense to start cultivating Bennett as a replacement sooner, not later.

That said, it doesn't seem to matter which HC we're dealing with; none of them seem to trust Bennett with the increased responsibility or TOI long term. That doesn't seem like a coincidence.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by BigRed

I think this is really it. Bennett doesn't seem to have tremendous chemistry with anybody, which probably has something to do with his do-it-yourself approach to the game.

Even so, there were some flashes with Dube (who IMO has something Bennett lacks, in that he has the vision and ability to make everyone he plays with better). Ryan isn't getting any younger, so it seems to make sense to start cultivating Bennett as a replacement sooner, not later.

That said, it doesn't seem to matter which HC we're dealing with; none of them seem to trust Bennett with the increased responsibility or TOI long term. That doesn't seem like a coincidence.

Especially considering how much management wants him to be successful, even if it's only to increase his trade value at this point.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If I'm reading this right, this link says he played 24% of his even strength icetime with tkachuk and backlund last year, where he produced 33% of his offense.

Tkachuk and backlund played 17% of their minutes last year with Bennett and produced 11% of their points in those minutes.

So that's about 20 games in the spot mangiapane has been in. Bennett predictably saw his point totals shoot up, but he was a drag on his linemates.

This year mangiapane has played 40% of his minutes with them and produced 38% of his points there. Backlund has played 34% of minutes with mangiapane and produced 51% of his offense with him.

What's best for Bennett and what's best for the team are often in conflict which is why Bennett gets the leftover minutes; there are better performing line combos that take priority over getting Bennett icetime.

Well everyone is going to have their own take aways.

I’d caution you against building an entire case on percentages with low sample sizes. When you have 3 even strength points and 11 percent, another measly point pushes that up to over 14 percent. We are not dealing with statistically significant sample sizes

Is it surprising that Backlund and Tkachuk had better chemistry with Frolik, with whom they played most frequently for complete seasons, than with Bennett in the limited time he played? Should it be?

I think you can see that Bennett has very low percentages of time with consistent linemates. Contrast to Mangiapane, who has had 40 percent of his time w/ Backlund and Tkachuk and 30 percent of his time w/ Tkachuk and Lindholm

It looks okay now, especially since Backlund was returned to C and entered beast mode. But it sure wasn’t looking good before this stretch, where Mang was coming off that 11 game pointless streak

The point there is that the coaches had a steadfast refusal to separate Mangiapane from Tkachuk, no matter how it was going for many, many consecutive unproductive games.

The thing people point to, and what is indisputable, is that Bennett has simply not gotten that consistent set of middle six linemates.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Especially considering how much management wants him to be successful, even if it's only to increase his trade value at this point.

Do they though?
He had a string of 5-6 good games and then boom 4th line once again as a winger for seemingly no reason.

It's time to move on, we'll never use him properly so find a trade with someone who will. ANA has been high on him forever, just let Sam go and let him bloom somewhere else and move on.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If I'm reading this right, this link says he played 24% of his even strength icetime with tkachuk and backlund last year, where he produced 33% of his offense.

Tkachuk and backlund played 17% of their minutes last year with Bennett and produced 11% of their points in those minutes.

So that's about 20 games in the spot mangiapane has been in. Bennett predictably saw his point totals shoot up, but he was a drag on his linemates.

This year mangiapane has played 40% of his minutes with them and produced 38% of his points there. Backlund has played 34% of minutes with mangiapane and produced 51% of his offense with him.

What's best for Bennett and what's best for the team are often in conflict which is why Bennett gets the leftover minutes; there are better performing line combos that take priority over getting Bennett icetime.

Ok, but your comparing him to a break out top six winger who could end up being a star part of the core. Both can be right, really what it’s come down to is that as Ryan begins to age is that Bennett the replacement very much like Mangiapanne replaced Frolic. Bennett is a 3c, and with the exception of face offs looks much better then Ryan in that role.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Why can't Bennett dominate lower lines/pairings though?

Because he isn't that good? Guy is barely noticeable

I think the truth is that he's not good enough to be the best player on his line. He needs players to help elevate his game (which is pretty dang common), but the different parts of the game he does bring makes him a solid complimentary player.

The annoyance for me this year is that I think we have the make up to do it, especially with the emergence of Mangiapane.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Mangiapane - Backlund - Tkachuk
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

That should be our top 9, and then you leverage Ryan on the 4th line as a centre and stick Jankowski on the wing or in the pressbox. I can't stomach watching Jankowski as a centre while Bennett or Ryan get shifted to the wing - it's just bad coaching.

[calculoso]

Bennett needs to look in the mirror, as does the coaching staff. Especially in the past few games, any time Bennett is on the 3rd line with Lucic and Dube, he has jump and seems to care. He then plays a shift on the 4th line with Janko and Rieder, and is lazy, has no energy, and seems to be the worst of the three.

It seems to come down to motivation. Bennett being out worked by Rieder says a lot. He elevates his game with better players, but it doesn’t seem to last very long. Hopefully he gets his head sorted out, as his skills come through. It just doesn’t happen enough for the effort to be trusted though, IMO.