Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Except Roberts produced points almost right away. Roberts scored 39 (2nd on the team) in his third full year, ahead of Mullen, Makarov, Gilmour, Theo, and behind only Newy. 53 two years later to lead the team. Such an underrated Flame.

Yes, as a 23 year old.

As a 21 year old, he had 28 points. As a 22 year old, 38 points.

Let's see how Bennett does this year and next before suggesting that Roberts produced 'almost right away'.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As a 21 year old, he had 28 points. As a 22 year old, 38 points.

And he did that against crappy goaltenders and sieve defences, with Joe Nieuwendyk and Håkan Loob for linemates. You can't ever say Roberts was not put in a position to succeed – yet it took him three years to get there.

Let's see how Bennett does as a regular on the second line before we bury him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And he did that against crappy goaltenders and sieve defences, with Joe Nieuwendyk and Håkan Loob for linemates. You can't ever say Roberts was not put in a position to succeed – yet it took him three years to get there.

Let's see how Bennett does as a regular on the second line before we bury him.

It actually took him about one year to get on a top 6 line, not counting his shorter callup year. Third line in his first full year, with 13 goals as a grinder, then up to top six the next as a power forward.

But sure, let's see what happens. I will not argue that Bennett looks a lot better this year. But he's not looking anywhere near what Roberts looked like even at 22, when he had 22 goals (and 250 pms), nor is he producing yet, despite playing better.

I agree that a goal adjustment would be due for the time, since GAA has decreased by about 1 goal per game. though the Flames (who were an excellent team) had two 50 goal scorers in Newy and Mullen (out of 6 in the league), but no one else over 30. But Roberts at 22 was tied for 6th on the team, with almost as many goals as Gilmour, Loob and Otto. It put him on a level with guys like Savard, Sakic, Tanti, Thomas, Sheppard, etc. Pretty darn good company.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It actually took him about one year to get on a top 6 line, not counting his shorter callup year. Third line in his first full year, with 13 goals as a grinder, then up to top six the next as a power forward.

But sure, let's see what happens. I will not argue that Bennett looks a lot better this year. But he's not looking anywhere near what Roberts looked like even at 22, when he had 22 goals (and 250 pms), nor is he producing yet, despite playing better.

I agree that a goal adjustment would be due for the time, since GAA has decreased by about 1 goal per game. though the Flames (who were an excellent team) had two 50 goal scorers in Newy and Mullen (out of 6 in the league), but no one else over 30. But Roberts at 22 was tied for 6th on the team, with almost as many goals as Gilmour, Loob and Otto. It put him on a level with guys like Savard, Sakic, Tanti, Thomas, Sheppard, etc. Pretty darn good company.

So if Bennett were tied for 6th in goals this year, that would be comparable?





(spoiler alert: currently tied for 6th in goals)

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So if Bennett were tied for 6th in goals this year, that would be comparable?





(spoiler alert: currently tied for 6th in goals)

With how many disallowed goals as well? 2 I think. Plus numerous posts. A little bit more lady luck and Benny is flirting with 10 goals at the quarter season mark and we are all

[SeanCharles]

I just want Bennett and Tkachuk kept together for the foreseeable future.

A top trio of speed and highend skill followed by a second unit of feisty, gritty, never quit guys with enough talent to make the opposition pay in more ways than one.

I really like the idea of those 5 being the foundation of our top 6 for years to come.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So if Bennett were tied for 6th in goals this year, that would be comparable?





(spoiler alert: currently tied for 6th in goals)

Only if this team has the equivalent of Newy, Mullen, Loob, Gilmour, and Otto ahead of him and Fleury, Macinnis, Suter and Lanny behind him.

Only if he's tied with the likes of Savard, Shanahan, Ferderko, Sheppard, or Thomas.

[Flash Walken]

Jean beliveau only scored 13 goals as a 24 year old and we all know how that turned out!

[Gaskal]

"After video review, it was determined that the last player to touch the puck was #93 Sam Bennett. Therefore we have no goal on the play."

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Only if this team has the equivalent of Newy, Mullen, Loob, Gilmour, and Otto ahead of him and Fleury, Macinnis, Suter and Lanny behind him.

Only if he's tied with the likes of Savard, Shanahan, Ferderko, Sheppard, or Thomas.

Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gio, Brodie, and Backlund say hi. The goal totals may be a bit different due to the much lower scores in today's NHL, but Calgary currently boasts more 20 point scorers than any other team in the league, and are currently 7th in team scoring in spite of Neal and Bennett shooting at well below their career percentages. Now if Neal could only become the current team's equivalent of Lanny, this team would be something special.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gio, Brodie, and Backlund say hi. The goal totals may be a bit different due to the much lower scores in today's NHL, but Calgary currently boasts more 20 point scorers than any other team in the league, and are currently 7th in team scoring in spite of Neal and Bennett shooting at well below their career percentages. Now if Neal could only become the current team's equivalent of Lanny, this team would be something special.

Close but no cigar. Who is a HOFer out of the present crew? That team had a handful.

If Bennett comes anywhere close Ron Roberts though, the team is in great shape. I am of course assuming Jankowski turns into Otto and Dube is Fleury.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Close but no cigar. Who is a HOFer out of the present crew? That team had a handful.

If Bennett comes anywhere close Ron Roberts though, the team is in great shape. I am of course assuming Jankowski turns into Otto and Dube is Fleury.

I'd say Gio is likely a HOFer, probably Gaudreau and Tkachuk when all is said and done... Maybe Monahan. Lindholm could put together a HOF career.. tough to predict, but it's possible.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

"After video review, it was determined that the last player to touch the puck was #93 Sam Bennett. Therefore we have no goal on the play."

This gave me a good laugh.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I'd say Gio is likely a HOFer, probably Gaudreau and Tkachuk when all is said and done... Maybe Monahan. Lindholm could put together a HOF career.. tough to predict, but it's possible.

Look at my name. Gio is great. I don't think he has the hardware or the career points to get to the HOF at this point. Gaudreau maybe. Tkachuk if his curve keeps on the way it is. Not the others.

Monahan is going to get the Bobby Smith treatment, I bet.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Look at my name. Gio is great. I don't think he has the hardware or the career points to get to the HOF at this point. Gaudreau maybe. Tkachuk if his curve keeps on the way it is. Not the others.



Monahan is going to get the Bobby Smith treatment, I bet.

I think Gio has a shot, he could potentially win the Norris this season or next, if he does that I’d say it would be likely. I’ll agree that Monahan is very unlikely... Lindholm, I don’t know... he has a pretty incredible skill set, I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. And winning the cup always helps.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Close but no cigar. Who is a HOFer out of the present crew? That team had a handful.

If Bennett comes anywhere close Ron Roberts though, the team is in great shape. I am of course assuming Jankowski turns into Otto and Dube is Fleury.

At that time, most of those players were in the prime of their careers, considerably older than our current core.

Best current matches with your list (player I expect to eventually turn out to be superior in bold, taking into account the differential in league scoring in the two different eras):

Gaudreau-Loob
Monahan-Niewendyk
Lindholm-Mullen (40 is the new 50, better all-around game)
Tkachuk-Gilmour
Bennett-Roberts
Jankowski-Otto
Neal-McDonald
Giordano-Macinnis (for the shot alone)
Valimaki-Suter
Backlund-Fleury (less offensive flash and grit but elite defensive capability)

Overall, a I would give the advantage to the Stanley Cup winners, at least among the marquee players, but I believe that the 2nd and 3rd D pairings of the current Flames roster will surpass their counterparts on that team (of course, the goaltending is another story and yet to be determined). And I am predicting that if the current Flames win a Cup, then Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Gio will all be enshrined in the HOF. And who knows whether any of our promising young D will eventually make that list.

I do agree with you, if Bennett turns out to be anywhere near the player Roberts was, then this team will be great, and IMO will win a Cup or two.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

At that time, most of those players were in the prime of their careers, considerably older than our current core.

Best current matches with your list (player I expect to eventually turn out to be superior in bold, taking into account the differential in league scoring in the two different eras):

Gaudreau-Loob
Monahan-Niewendyk
Lindholm-Mullen (40 is the new 50, better all-around game)
Tkachuk-Gilmour
Bennett-Roberts
Jankowski-Otto
Neal-McDonald
Giordano-Macinnis (for the shot alone)
Valimaki-Suter
Backlund-Fleury (less offensive flash and grit but elite defensive capability)

Overall, a I would give the advantage to the Stanley Cup winners, at least among the marquee players, but I believe that the 2nd and 3rd D pairings of the current Flames roster will surpass their counterparts on that team (of course, the goaltending is another story and yet to be determined). And I am predicting that if the current Flames win a Cup, then Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Gio will all be enshrined in the HOF. And who knows whether any of our promising young D will eventually make that list.

I do agree with you, if Bennett turns out to be anywhere near the player Roberts was, then this team will be great, and IMO will win a Cup or two.

Backlund is better than Fleury? Fleury was all-world at one point, and he had as much talent as anyone in the game IMO. Over 1000 points despite his well-known issues (and that's the rough benchmark for HOF). Or are you just comparing them at the particular point in time (2018 versus 1989)? In that case, I guess. I would have said Backlund was more like Colin Patterson or maybe Hrdina.

You are seriously underselling Mullen. Including his all around game. I will wait to see if Lindholm gets near 40. He's on a career pace, but let's see him break 20 before we pencil him in for 40. Mullen was a no doubter HOF guy.

Loob is underrated as well. But, yeah Gaudreau easily beats him. I think Mullen versus Gaudreau is the better comparison, actually. Then Lindholm has a much more favorable matchup against Loob (whose stats suffers from a short career, despite one monster year).

I will give you Tkachuk versus Gilmour, who I think was really good but slightly overrated because he played for Toronto (and TBF had bigger numbers there). Tkachuk.

When all is said and done, I could see Gaudreau getting into the Hall and maybe Tkachuk, if they each crack 1000 points. Not Gio, Monahan or Lindholm, because I see lots of comparable players who didn't get in.

Back OT, if Bennett wants to emulate Roberts, I'm 100% behind that. By all accounts, Newy had a big part in the transformation of Roberts from grinder to scoring forward (both in development and in advocating to coaches).

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Jean beliveau only scored 13 goals as a 24 year old and we all know how that turned out!

???

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Jean beliveau only scored 13 goals as a 24 year old and we all know how that turned out!

22 year old, according to hockeydb, and he got them in 44 games. He got 37 at 23 (in 70 games).

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

22 year old, according to hockeydb, and he got them in 44 games. He got 37 at 23 (in 70 games).

the homerism is so thick in here it's tough to tell that my comparison to an NHL legend was sarcasm.

I don't blame you, I blame the system.