[Rumour] Sven Baertschi's dad talks to Swiss newspaper about wanting out

[Dr. Doom]

Told ya'll
Kid is a waste of an asset now
Way to go Flames mgmt for not at least getting something for this kid!

First rounders grow on trees according to Hartley

[Lanny_McDonald]

I was trying to explain this possibility the other day before I was dog piled and driven from the thread. There are expectations these players have, and the thinking that you can hold them back is changing quickly. I know people don't want to consider it, but it is what it is. Agents and the new CBA have changed the game in more ways than people care to admit. This is the second year in a row that people have missed the obvious about Baertschi and Flames management, and for some reason not been capable of reading the situation. Sometimes the perspective you don't want to hear is the one you should think on the longest. Let the dog pile re-commence!

To clarify, I don't think there is much to this that can't be repaired, if Baertschi does not disengage from the team and his responsibilities. If he goes down and plays hard, score some points, and impresses his coaches in the AHL, he will be up quickly and permanently. I believe his next call up will be his last. He just needs to get there.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Told ya'll
Kid is a waste of an asset now
Way to go Flames mgmt for not at least getting something for this kid!

First rounders grow on trees according to Hartley

What's been wasted? He's still a Flames asset and that's not going to change unless they trade him and get an asset in return. It's pretty obvious that Baertschi and Hartley don't see eye to eye but one of them is under contract for only one more season so I wouldn't worry too much as this will get resolved one way or another whether Hartley doesn't come back, Sven gets traded, or Sven simply plays so well in the AHL that he earns a chance to get back in the NHL.

[Rick M.]

I don't think we should get our knickers in a knot over remarks from a parent (do you remember the obsessive threads about Johnny's mom?). There's a good dose of Swiss nationalism in the story too.

[DropIt]

from what i have heard, this agent is a real piece of work too. I think Niedereiter's agent and basixally cries about his players until theyre full time NHLers

[FlamesAddiction]

This fan base can be so disjointed sometimes. Some people cry for meritocracy while others complain that you shouldn't hold back young players even though they haven't earned anything yet. There is just no pleasing everyone I guess.

Baertschi has not earned anything yet. I can see the argument for choosing to continue his development in the NHL instead of the AHL, but it is not holding him back as much as it would be forcing him forward to sink or swim.

[BurningSteel]

Sven should tell the old man to shut his mouth. I think Sven will be up with the team within 2 weeks.

[Rick M.]

Treliving made it clear in yesterday's press conference that he think Sven is 'very close'. Let's all take a deep breath.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

Does seem to be something weird between him and Coach Bob though. I'm big supporter of what Hartley has done, so if the organization isn't going to cater to the kid, IMO, we should explore the trade route suggested. Let the kid put up some points, confirming what everybody already knows - that he can do this - and sell high (or at least as close to even) as we can, instead of slowly breaking him down and losing value as pieces like this continue to raise red flags to potential suitors.

Horak complained about the coach after he was traded so maybe he rubs some players the wrong was or vice versa. Then again it's probably easy for a player to feel they were treated unfairly

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DropIt

from what i have heard, this agent is a real piece of work too. I think Niedereiter's agent and basixally cries about his players until theyre full time NHLers

Well, Nino was pretty ridiculously mishandled by the Islanders and now he's developing into a strong player in the NHL with his new team.

Looks like the agent was right, no? I mean, it's Nino's career, not yours. He has to do what's best for him.

That's what agents are for in the first place.

[Textcritic]

Devo posted what seems to be a pretty reliable translation/summary of the article in the other thread, so I will just use his past to make my point below:

Originally Posted by devo22

the translations are correct and the truth is that those quotes from Svens father are pretty damning. I'd translate them like this:

"Hartley loves physically strong players, but Sven is a finesse player. Last year they wanted him to play differently, he wasn't allowed to play to his strengths anymore and at some point he didn't know what to do on the ice anymore. I visited Sven last year and the mental stress was huge. Hartley destroyed him as if Sven was solely to blame for the losses. The two of them will probably never be friends. I don't know why the Flames even keep Sven any longer. A trade would probably be the best thing, and that's what I hope for now. With Calgary, it's probably over."

Given the tabloid's less than irreproachable reputation, is there any indication that these comments from his dad are current? Because based on what happened at camp this year, it is something I would wonder about: from what I saw of Baertschi at camp this year, he got PLENTY of opportunities to play to his strengths, and got lots of time on the pp. His dad's comments don't sound at all like an accurate description of what Baertschi experienced in camp this year.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

So you're basically saying that the Flames should follow the Oilers lead of giving spots to kids without them having to earn them. If a player can't elevate his game to play a solid game and play within a system, then they should be moved, not because of them, but because they aren't good enough for us.

Baertschi is very close, even Burke and Treliving have said it, but he does need to work on some things in the AHL still. He did not look at all like an NHL top 6 forward offensively in the preseason. He needs to find a balance between his defensive game and his offensive game in order to be useful, because if he is a bottom 6 forward, there are other players that are more suited for that type of game (Arnold, Agostino, Reinhart, Ferland etc)

The bold part is where you get situations like Edmonton, and with Iginla. Neither the kids up north or Iginla and his group listened to the coaching staff. No player should be above reproach and if they feel that way, then it might be better to move them elsewhere. You win by having all 20 guys buying in to playing the same system and each pulling their own weight. Teams that have collections of individuals each with their own sets of privileges never win because they are too me first.

You don't see Kane and Toews being selfish and not willing to improve, Kane's always working on refining his offensive game. If a player thinks they are good enough and aren't willing to learn or try to improve, then those players should get as far away from our team as possible. Mediocrity should not be tolerated.

If anyone can't handle some criticism, especially when it's warranted and accurate, then they should grow up and become an adult and learn from what they are picking out as flaws and why they want you to improve instead of getting pissy because they are picking out flaws.

That's fine, but have you ever been called out by your bosses' boss in the media? That's some tough love that not everyone responds to. Suck it up princess is a bit simplistic.

Having said that, no they shouldn't hand him something he doesn't deserve but hopefully they are working with him in a constructive and positive way. I also hope they cater to his strength, which is to be a dynamic offensive player.

In Treliving's interview yesterday he said Gaudreau was here to play an offensive role. He didn't say he could be one dimensional but clearly his focus is offence. I would expect something similar for Baertschi - be responsible but don't try to win a Selke.

[saillias]

Honestly I think there's something to what the agent, the dad is saying, it's maybe time to move on. Long term, is Baertschi going to be able to replace Hudler or Glencross? I don't really think he will. From what I've seen in training camp I'm not even convinced he will earn that next call up, Granlund and Ferland are who I think we're seeing next. Like everyone is saying, it's getting to a point where he has to make it or find somewhere else to play, I don't think he'll make it here.

[N26]

As a German-speaker I think I can add a little to this discussion. Google translate does a good job but there are a couple of phrases that could have been said better. But more importantly I think the whole website is little to worry about.

The website in question is not going to win any major journalistic awards by the looks of things. I went through about 8 articles in the "eishockey" section and I can safely conclude that it is simply pro-Swiss hockey and Swiss hockey players. None of the articles have much depth to them. They are very excited about Swiss hockey and its top players. Some of the statements are a bit much but what are you going to do? It reminds me of the Calgary Sun when I lived in Cgy (1975-91). I suspect it is not much different now. Below-average stuff.

With Diaz, Hiller, former Zurich coach Hartley and hopefully soon Bärtschi, the Flames are generally a highly-regarded team in Switzerland these days. If we could get Fiala out of Nashville and say add a Mark Streit we would have an entire nation ring cowbells and screaming "hopp Schwiiz/hop suisse" for us. Not that I'm advocating getting Streit. Fiala would be nice. And there's a big defenseman available in the upcoming draft, Jonas Siegenthaler that looks interesting but I digress.

In the Sven article in question here, it is somewhat inflammatory and does quote some strong stuff from his agent and father. But as someone previously mentioned, it is hardly surprising that these 2 people are strongly in support of Sven. And, quality of website taken into consideration, what they say shouldn't be taken as exactly what Sven is thinking right now. Or even all of what his father and agent said during their interviews. The author may have been very selective in what quotes were used.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Sven being a little confused and upset right now. Let's see what he's saying in a week or two. This definitely seems like one of those "it's not that you failed but how you got back up and tried again after failing" situations

Also there is another article on the site that supports the idea that Sven was passed by Gaudreau on the Flames depth chart. Granted one of the reasons that particular author gives is pretty foolish, saying that Gaudreau is American and so is Burke therefore Gaudreau had an extra in with the club. But he does concede Johnny's accomplishments over the last year have been impressive, particularly the most recent World Championships.

So I wouldn't get your panties in a bunch over this particular article. Despite how much fun it can be to what CP explode over something minor.

[killer_carlson]

It would come as no surprise to me if Sven indeed requests a trade. I like the kid and hope he has a long NHL career. I want it to be in Calgary, but if the franchise doesn't want him around, then move him to another organization. If they do want him to be here, then it sounds like there needs to be much better communication to Sven to let him know what it is he needs to do.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Horak complained about the coach after he was traded so maybe he rubs some players the wrong was or vice versa. Then again it's probably easy for a player to feel they were treated unfairly

A) I don't remember this at all.
2) We talking about the same Horak who is back in Europe because no team wanted him?

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Horak complained about the coach after he was traded so maybe he rubs some players the wrong was or vice versa. Then again it's probably easy for a player to feel they were treated unfairly

Had a conversation with a father of a well established NHL player. We were talking Flames, so I asked him if his son had heard anything about Hartley's relationship with the players. He told me that his son said he hadn't heard anything negative ..... which in his mind was good, if players don't like the coach, word gets around fast.

[Ashasx]

Horak most certainly complained about Hartley after the trade. Just can't find the article.

There was a discussion on this forum at some time about it. Horak felt he wasn't being given the same opportunities as other players.

[saillias]

Well Brent played Horak, Hartley didn't, and Horak was Oilered (greasered?). Of course he's bitter towards Hartley.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by saillias

Honestly I think there's something to what the agent, the dad is saying, it's maybe time to move on. Long term, is Baertschi going to be able to replace Hudler or Glencross? I don't really think he will. From what I've seen in training camp I'm not even convinced he will earn that next call up, Granlund and Ferland are who I think we're seeing next. Like everyone is saying, it's getting to a point where he has to make it or find somewhere else to play, I don't think he'll make it here.

Under normal circumstances, I would agree. But if the first call up is within the next few weeks, I think both Granlund and Ferland are more likely to be passed over. Granlund, because he is coming back from concussion protocol, and Ferland, because he has only played a handful of AHL games. I believe that he will be given extra time to make adjustments this year.