Dealership; Used cars

[Camronius]

I'm wondering typically in Calgary, what kind of deal can someone make off the listed price. If a car is listed for 32k, what would you expect to actually pay for it?

I'd like to bargain down to 27k or something but I'm not sure if thats too agressive. Any experience?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Camronius

I'm wondering typically in Calgary, what kind of deal can someone make off the listed price. If a car is listed for 32k, what would you expect to actually pay for it?

I'd like to bargain down to 27k or something but I'm not sure if thats too agressive. Any experience?

I think it's doable depending on how long the dealership has sat on it and what kind of car it is. For example, if it's a Corvette they'd probably be stoked to sell it right now...if it's a Jeep maybe not so much.

[Sample00]

you know, it just really depends on a lot of things.
pick the maximum that you are willing to pay for the car, start at below that and then stick to your guns. The dealership will either say yay or nay. At some point you have to be prepared to sign on the dotted line or walk away. Those are your options.
margins in used vehicles have become fairly tight. Some dealerships arent willing to budge much off the listed price.
But it never hurts to ask!

[DownhillGoat]

I find a good rule of thumb is 10% below. I wouldn't say 27k is too agressive. Throw it out there. The worst thing they'll do is say no. It's not like you're offering half. What kind of vehicle is it?

If it's a vehichle you don't mind not getting, or can wait a while before you pick it up, wait it out. Eventually dealers send used vehichles to auction and you can usually find out what the wholesale price is for them. Example: I was looking at a used Dodge Magnum, list was 16,900. I through out about %10 below (15,000). They said they'd get back to me as they didn't have much wiggle room. Manager comes out and says yeah, we can do 15. I didn't take it, as it was more than I wanted to spend on a winter vehicle at the time. Watched the weekly ads, and it ended up dropping to 13K the week before auction. I ended up not taking it as I wasn't happy with the customer service there, but it shows how much wiggle room there is, and how much they actually mark up used vehichles.

[Byrns]

Considering for how much dealerships are buying these cars for, I would say they should have a bunch of wiggle room.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

I find a good rule of thumb is 10% below. I wouldn't say 27k is too agressive. Throw it out there. The worst thing they'll do is say no. It's not like you're offering half. What kind of vehicle is it?

If it's a vehichle you don't mind not getting, or can wait a while before you pick it up, wait it out. Eventually dealers send used vehichles to auction and you can usually find out what the wholesale price is for them. Example: I was looking at a used Dodge Magnum, list was 16,900. I through out about %10 below (15,000). They said they'd get back to me as they didn't have much wiggle room. Manager comes out and says yeah, we can do 15. I didn't take it, as it was more than I wanted to spend on a winter vehicle at the time. Watched the weekly ads, and it ended up dropping to 13K the week before auction. I ended up not taking it as I wasn't happy with the customer service there, but it shows how much wiggle room there is, and how much they actually mark up used vehichles.

OMG that is such weaksauce dude. Why did you make them an offer then squelch on it? That is so lame - you made the guy look up what they paid for the car, calculate a margin, weigh the pros and cons of your offer, etc. They then accept your offer and you back out? Not cool.

Then you say you're not happy with their customer service? WTF. If you wanted the car for say $12K, then offer them $12K.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Why did you make them an offer then squelch on it? That is so lame - you made the guy look up what they paid for the car, calculate a margin, weigh the pros and cons of your offer, etc. They then accept your offer and you back out? Not cool.

The manager was out in about 2 seconds. He did no lookups, no calculations. It wasn't an offer, I asked if they'd consider 15k before I even took it for a test drive, not sure how that's an offer or squelching. And I was considering spending that if it was a decent car. It was during the test drive that the service bugged me. Didn't like the salesman at all, and there were other factors in my not buying it that I didn't bother going into. Heated seats didn't work, didn't handle as well in the snow as I was hoping... I didn't go in and say "I'll take it if you give it to me for 15k" and then back out. I went in, looked at the car, and didn't take it. I guess everyone else walks into a dealership and takes whatever they look at.

I told them up front I was in the looking stage, not the buying stage. I didn't offer 12k as I figured there was no way they'd let it go for 5k under list.

The entire point of the story was to illustrate what there can be for a margin in used cars.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That is so lame - you made the guy look up what they paid for the car, calculate a margin, weigh the pros and cons of your offer, etc.

Shouldn't this take like 2-3 minutes max? I mean we're not talking labors of Hercules here...

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

The manager was out in about 2 seconds. He did no lookups, no calculations. It wasn't an offer, I asked if they'd consider 15k before I even took it for a test drive, not sure how that's an offer or squelching. And I was considering spending that if it was a decent car. It was during the test drive that the service bugged me. Didn't like the salesman at all, and there were other factors in my not buying it that I didn't bother going into. Heated seats didn't work, didn't handle as well in the snow as I was hoping... I didn't go in and say "I'll take it if you give it to me for 15k" and then back out. I went in, looked at the car, and didn't take it. I guess everyone else walks into a dealership and takes whatever they look at.

I told them up front I was in the looking stage, not the buying stage. I didn't offer 12k as I figured there was no way they'd let it go for 5k under list.

The entire point of the story was to illustrate what there can be for a margin in used cars.

I got from your first post that you made them an offer of $15K, they accepted and then you walked.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Shouldn't this take like 2-3 minutes max? I mean we're not talking labors of Hercules here...

We complain on this board when somebody wastes 2 seconds of our time driving. I think it's equally lame to waste 2-3 minutes of somebody's time offering them money for their car when you actually have no intention of buying it. I just don't get why you'd do that, but whatev.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Sliver

We complain on this board when somebody wastes 2 seconds of our time driving. I think it's equally lame to waste 2-3 minutes of somebody's time offering them money for their car when you actually have no intention of buying it. I just don't get why you'd do that, but whatev.

Taking into consideration that he seemed to go about things in an honest way (explained above).....you see car dealerships pulling tricks over on customers all the time.... advertising prices that aren't realistic, luring you in with cars that they don't actually have, adding hidden charges once you've agreed on a price, duping people with useless things like undercoating etc.

If there's anyone that deserves to be dealt with in cutthroat fashion, it's the used car industry. They often don't seem to respect your time, so why return the favor?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Taking into consideration that he seemed to go about things in an honest way (explained above).....you see car dealerships pulling tricks over on customers all the time.... advertising prices that aren't realistic, luring you in with cars that they don't actually have, adding hidden charges once you've agreed on a price, duping people with useless things like undercoating etc.

If there's anyone that deserves to be dealt with in cutthroat fashion, it's the used car industry. They often don't seem to respect your time, so why return the favor?

Yeah my comment was in reply to his original post where he made them an offer that they accepted, and then walked. After he explained further it made more sense, but that's because he completely changed his story. At first he said he turned down their acceptance of his offer because

it was more than I wanted to spend on a winter vehicle at the time.

But it was his offer! Maybe he is honest...I'm sure one of the two stories is true. lol

[pylon]

Wow, it blows me away how little is known about buying a car still.

Firstly, the average markup on a used vehicle in Alberta after cosmetic reconditioning, certification and mechanical repairs is around 8%. New cars are about 7%. After people haggle you down, in almost every case, the government makes more on the sale of a dealer bought vehicle than the actual dealer.

Secondly, making an offer and then backing away on it is a very snaky thing to do. Just because the Used car manager didn't open up an accounting program, call in the comptroller, and make a call to the president of Chrysler Canada, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he has in the car. Our used car manager can tell you within $100 what he is into any of the 150 used cars on our lot, without referencing the computer. A good manager knows his inventory.

This is why I always advocate having a deposit from a customer before haggling. Money talks, and BS walks... like you did. And the beauty of AMVIC is not only does it protect the customers from shady dealers, it also protects dealers from flaky customers. You would have lost your deposit in that scenario, and not have wasted the time of a guy who is paid solely to sell, not get his chain yanked across the lot. Just because he is a 'slimy' used car guy, doesn't mean his time is any less valuable to earn a living and put food on the table.

Since the implementation of AMVIC, the major car dealers are some of the safest places in Alberta to conduct business. As a Finance Manager, I have to operate under a pretty strict code of conduct. Had I tried to pull some of the stunts, and fraudulent tricks many of the customers have tried to pull on me... on a weekly basis... I would be in jail.

[amorak]

AMVIC has no criminal code implications.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by pylon

This is why I always advocate having a deposit from a customer before haggling. Money talks, and BS walks... like you did. And the beauty of AMVIC is not only does it protect the customers from shady dealers, it also protects dealers from flaky customers. You would have lost your deposit in that scenario, and not have wasted the time of a guy who is paid solely to sell, not get his chain yanked across the lot. Just because he is a 'slimy' used car guy, doesn't mean his time is any less valuable to earn a living and put food on the table.

I can see being a finance manager at a dealership you would advocate this position because John Q Public is tough to deal with, but as a customer it pretty much zaps your bargaining power in negotiations if you can't just walk away without paying anything if the dealership cannot match a price you are willing to pay.

That all said, the previous poster offering $15K, having the dealership agree and then take it off the table is unethical. If it was the other way around, it would be all over GlobalTV with an consumer investigative report.

As for the OP. If you only want to pay $27K all-in for the car you're interested in, before you even start the bidding ask the salesmen for ALL fees on top of the sales price. Typically there are documentation fees and other fees added on top of the price you are negotiating. Get those numbers from the salesman beforehand and make your offers accordingly. You might be pretty choked if you negotiate $27K and they slap $900 in fees on top afterwards that you didn't know about.

[Ironhorse]

This should make for some interesting discussion. Site from a guy who claims to be an ex salesman and ex finance office guy.

http://www.insidercarsecrets.com/

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by pylon

This is why I always advocate having a deposit from a customer before haggling. Money talks, and BS walks... like you did.

This is probably the worst business practice I've ever heard of.

If a car salesman even suggested this to me I can guarantee I'd walk away that second, because if I was him and someone was dumb enough to put down a deposit before settling on a price, what incentive is there to make a deal? I can stick to my guns on a price and if the guy walks away I keep the deposit, and can still sell the car.

[FlameOn]

Don't dealerships only pay blackbook value for trade-ins? I remember getting rid of our old van for like $5000 or something just to see the dealer list it for something like $9000 a few days later.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by pylon

This is why I always advocate having a deposit from a customer before haggling.

Do people actually do this? The only time someone's ever tried to get me to leave a deposit without knowing the price was at a Mexican timeshare sales pitch. I can't imagine anyone would give a deposit under those circumstances, since it takes away all of your leverage.

On a related note, I bought a new car under the understanding that we were negotiating an all-in price. Then the finance manager explains that it doesn't include the laser etching anti-theft with extra theft insurance.

I told him I had plenty of car insurance, and wasn't paying for that, and he could take it off. He said it wasn't optional, since they etched it into the car already. I told him signed papers or no signed papers, I wouldn't be paying that, and if he insisted on it he wouldn't be selling a car.

I don't think that's backing out on my part, since he tried to wrench extra $$ from me after purchase. Total D-bag move, I would say.

[Champion]

I would walk out in 1 second if I was asked to put a deposit down. What sort of leverage do I have to negotiate then? Unless the deposit was like $100