Irving, Pelech, Negrin, Chucko

[kn]

All four have suffered injuries lately. Pelech, Negrin, and Chucko just can't seem to stay healthy. Pelech and Negrin were highly thought of at one point by some but you've got to figure their stock is dropping. Chucko's chances have to be over with another concussion.

I haven't heard of Irving having had injury problems but the knee injury seems to be just another setback of what was once a highly regarded prospect. He just hasn't seem to be able to step up his game; statistically he seems to get worse every year since his draft year although you've got to take those with a grain of salt.

Does anyone see any of these guys with a future in the organization?

[kirant]

This is certainly Chuko's last kick in the organization. There are simply too many similar players pushing him for a job.

Pelech, if he could avoid injuries, would be sitting in the stands instead of Staios. He'll probably take that job next year when Staios leaves to clear up cap space. Negrin will probably take the same route in a couple of years.

Irving, I don't know. Goalies are always so volatile as prospects. I can't imagine giving up on him yet, especially when Keetley is the next in line. If he isn't much better by, let's say, 26-27, then he's certainly got no future.

[jeremywilhelm]

Pelech is only what? 23? Lot's of time for him. Negrin is 21.

Irving is 23 as well?

Gotta have some patience with these kids. Most decent players don't break into the NHL till 23-24.

[shermanator]

To be fair, Irving's first year after he was drafted he was 34-9-3 with a 1.86 GAA and .929 SV%. Kind of hard to improve on those numbers.

I haven't seen Irving play much, but you also have to take into consideration that Quad City's D-core was much more experienced in 08-09 thn Abbotsford's D last year. This knee injury is the first injury he's had since becoming a pro IIRC, so you can't exactly say he's injury prone.

Pelech was looking great until that blood clot, not much you can do about a career and potentially life threatening injury. As has been said above, Negrin is still young, only 21. Let's see how he rebounds from this injury before we write him off.

Brodie IMO has jumped over Pelech and Negrin in the depth charts right now, and is #8 in our list of D.

Chucko on the other hand is done as a prospect. He's a career AHLer who may get the odd cup of coffee with a team ala Peters / Van der Gulik. Sometimes first round picks just bust.

[Doc Hudson]

Playfair in an interview on Fan960 says that Irving really stepped it up this year and is the #1 this year, and he expects it to stay that way. He was dissapointed in Keetley and now there is a competition for the backup. Also says the injury isn't bad.

http://www.fan960.com/ondemand/media...02_173129_9976

Lots of good updates on rest the youngest team in the AHL.

[jeremywilhelm]

Chet Pickard is really struggling in the Preds ahl team. Sutter should try to get something done.

[jschick88]

Originally Posted by jeremywilhelm

Chet Pickard is really struggling in the Preds ahl team. Sutter should try to get something done.

Worse for Pickard, he is struggling in Cincinnati, the Predators affiliated team in the ECHL.

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by kirant

Irving, I don't know. Goalies are always so volatile as prospects. I can't imagine giving up on him yet, especially when Keetley is the next in line. If he isn't much better by, let's say, 26-27, then he's certainly got no future.

I heard Playfair talking about Irving on the Fan a few days ago. He was giving him tons of praise, saying he was thoroughly impressed by his drive and preparation, and that he seemed to be grasping the opportunity finally. He also said that he was equally disappointed in Keetley. I found it really interesting, and also optimistic that finally one of the two guys was stepping up. I guess the injury is pretty bad timing for Irving in that case.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by jeremywilhelm

Chet Pickard is really struggling in the Preds ahl team. Sutter should try to get something done.

Pickard, eh?

I say ... make it so and set your phasers to FUN!

[jeremywilhelm]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Pickard, eh?

I say ... make it so and set your phasers to FUN!

There are so many decent goalies in the Preds system you gotta think they would move him for the right price.

[shermanator]

Pickard would be a good replacement for Keetley IMO. Would hopefully give Irving a little competition.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by jeremywilhelm

Pelech is only what? 23? Lot's of time for him. Negrin is 21.

Irving is 23 as well?

Gotta have some patience with these kids. Most decent players don't break into the NHL till 23-24.

5 years in the minors is a pretty long time though...Irving gets a pass because of the position. Negrin still has time...

Pelech has a top side of 3rd pairing...I said this a few months ago and certain posters called me out saying his ceiling was much higher: news flash, its not...after this year, he'll be an occasional call up, a career minor league player.

no team even plucked him off waivers...future NHL'er don't spend 5+ years in the minors...at least guys that are top 4 d or top 6 forwards.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

5 years in the minors is a pretty long time though...Irving gets a pass because of the position. Negrin still has time...

Pelech has a top side of 3rd pairing...I said this a few months ago and certain posters called me out saying his ceiling was much higher: news flash, its not...after this year, he'll be an occasional call up, a career minor league player.

no team even plucked him off waivers...future NHL'er don't spend 5+ years in the minors...at least guys that are top 4 d or top 6 forwards.

Not sure why you keep mentioning 5 years in the minors.

Chucko leads that category with 4 years already banked, on his 5th. I think most of us are agreed in labelling him a bust.

Pelech has played 3 years in the minors, this will be his 4th

Negrin has played 1, this will be his 2nd

Irving has played 2, this will be his 3rd.

Chucko likely won't be anything. Pelech may still turn into a regular NHLer with us or someone else.

To even talk about Irving or Negrin being busts at this point is pretty ludicrous. They aren't anywhere near the 5 years you seem to be harping on. Ryan Miller played University hockey and in the minors until he was 25 before making the NHL full time. And he was considered the best or one of the best goaltending prospects outside the NHL for a lot of that time.

Your rule about how many years a player plays before making the NHL ignores late bloomers and exceptions like that. Rafalski played 4 years in Europe after playing 4 years in college, he made the NHL in his mid 20's. I'm not saying any of these players will be Rafalski but you shouldn't be making blanket statements like top 4 defence/top 6 forwards never spend more than a few years in the minors because it just isn't true in all cases.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

5 years in the minors is a pretty long time though...Irving gets a pass because of the position. Negrin still has time...

Pelech has a top side of 3rd pairing...I said this a few months ago and certain posters called me out saying his ceiling was much higher: news flash, its not...after this year, he'll be an occasional call up, a career minor league player.

no team even plucked him off waivers...future NHL'er don't spend 5+ years in the minors...at least guys that are top 4 d or top 6 forwards.

But he's only on his 4th year from what I can tell. [/nitpicking]

True, I don't think Pelech's ceiling isn't as high as others seem to imply it is (I still see the occasional claim of him being Regehr 2.0), but he's certainly going to be a decent 5/6 D, closer to the Cory Sarich mold with a bit less offense and more of a goon mentality.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Not sure why you keep mentioning 5 years in the minors.

Chucko leads that category with 4 years already banked, on his 5th. I think most of us are agreed in labelling him a bust.

Pelech has played 3 years in the minors, this will be his 4th

Negrin has played 1, this will be his 2nd

Irving has played 2, this will be his 3rd.

Chucko likely won't be anything. Pelech may still turn into a regular NHLer with us or someone else.

To even talk about Irving or Negrin being busts at this point is pretty ludicrous. They aren't anywhere near the 5 years you seem to be harping on. Ryan Miller played University hockey and in the minors until he was 25 before making the NHL full time. And he was considered the best or one of the best goaltending prospects outside the NHL for a lot of that time.

Your rule about how many years a player plays before making the NHL ignores late bloomers and exceptions like that. Rafalski played 4 years in Europe after playing 4 years in college, he made the NHL in his mid 20's. I'm not saying any of these players will be Rafalski but you shouldn't be making blanket statements like top 4 defence/top 6 forwards never spend more than a few years in the minors because it just isn't true in all cases.

5 years is simply a measure - you can agree or disagree with that being the cutoff line with respect to being a career minor league player. IMO if a guy is still in the minors after 5 years, with that organization, he's going to be a bust.

As noted, goalies typically don't fall under the 5 year category.

we've had the same conversation with respect to lottery picks being required in order for teams to get elite players. I say they don't; that great players can be found after the top 15. When you defend Calgary's poor record of drafting, you certainly don't use the exception to the rule either.

Luckily, all we have to do is watch the players named and their development in order to see which position is correct.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

5 years is simply a measure - you can agree or disagree with that being the cutoff line with respect to being a career minor league player. IMO if a guy is still in the minors after 5 years, with that organization, he's going to be a bust.

So you're agreeing that Pelech and Negrin will still not be busts after this year? Excellent!

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by shermanator

So you're agreeing that Pelech and Negrin will still not be busts after this year? Excellent!

I think when a team puts a player on waivers and he clears them, that says a lot about what the team and what other GMs think. Of course, there are times when this happens, and the player is moved within a couple weeks anyways, but this is probably due to cap reasons. Guys like Juice and Boyd w/ Nashville had this happen.

Negrin still has time, but how good can he possibly be if he is still in the minors after all this time?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Negrin still has time, but how good can he possibly be if he is still in the minors after all this time?

Uhhhh Negrin's only had 1 year in the minors so far so I'm not sure what you're even talking about. He even missed half that year with injury problems.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

we've had the same conversation with respect to lottery picks being required in order for teams to get elite players. I say they don't; that great players can be found after the top 15. When you defend Calgary's poor record of drafting, you certainly don't use the exception to the rule either.

Not sure what you're getting at here. I totally agree you can find elite players outside the top 15. Its just much more likely to find them in the top 10 or so. Statistics would certainly back that up.

What I've argued against in the past is that expecting to get an elite player in the late 1st, or 2nd is probably an unrealistic expectation. Sure we'd love to get an elite player outside the top 15 and it does happen every once in a while. But if you are expecting that then your expectations are unrealistic because history shows that its a very rare thing.

And analyzing whether Calgary's drafting is poor or not is a matter of looking at every team and seeing how well the average team does over a certain span. I'm not sure you've bothered to do that research, nor do I think you have a good idea of what the average team does. I think you'd be surprised to find that almost every team's draft record looks "poor" to you. Its pretty easy to find teams who have botched their 1st round picks much worse than we have this decade with similar draft position.

[oldschoolcalgary]

and yet, who is the last top 6 forward drafted by Calgary?

Of course teams have a litany of failed picks; that's part and parcel of the draft. But to rationalize Calgary's poor drafting as a result of where they pick is not supported by the facts.

with respect Negrin, I guess we'll see won't we?