Shots fired at Korean border

[Hemi-Cuda]

this can't be good

[FlameOn]

Ever since the North Koreans sunk that destroyer tensions have been crazy over there. If it were one of the bigger countries and not South Korea the thing would have been considered an act of war. Given the North's rejection of the Nuclear talks and their increasing craziness, it really makes you wonder if more shooting is gonna break out soon.

Sad thing is the North has the largest artillery force with over 500 long range artillery pieces in range of Seoul and more than 6000 total, the defenses at the border could realistically face something like half a million rounds in the first few hours if this escalated to that... which I really hope it doesn't

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Sad thing is the North has the largest artillery force with over 500 long range artillery pieces in range of Seoul and more than 6000 total, the defenses at the border could realistically face something like half a million rounds in the first few hours if this escalated to that... which I really hope it doesn't

The big question about that artillery is how fast could the Korean's and USAF neutralize the majority of that?

Of course if they fire off the first salvos there would be huge casualties in Seoul, no getting around that.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Let's get this over with. "Operation Kimchi" in effect.



Coming from a fairly dedicated pacifist.
-------------------------------------

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

The big question about that artillery is how fast could the Korean's and USAF neutralize the majority of that?

Of course if they fire off the first salvos there would be huge casualties in Seoul, no getting around that.

That's a lot of targets for planes to hit in a short amount of time. If they're protected by modern SAM sites you might even see a few planes get shot down.

At least the effort would be well run if it doesn't degrade into a war of attrition since the US would be running the whole counter-attack. Korea's the only country in the world whose military is commanded by a foreign power.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

That's a lot of targets for planes to hit in a short amount of time. If they're protected by modern SAM sites you might even see a few planes get shot down.

At least the effort would be well run if it doesn't degrade into a war of attrition since the US would be running the whole counter-attack. Korea's the only country in the world whose military is commanded by a foreign power.

Realistically I would figure the artillery would be targeted by:

-Naval ships within range (guns)
-Cruise missiles (sub/ship/land/air based)
-Aircraft (emphasis on stealth perhaps?)
-UAV's
-artillery

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Ever since the North Koreans sunk that destroyer tensions have been crazy over there. If it were one of the bigger countries and not South Korea the thing would have been considered an act of war. Given the North's rejection of the Nuclear talks and their increasing craziness, it really makes you wonder if more shooting is gonna break out soon.

Sad thing is the North has the largest artillery force with over 500 long range artillery pieces in range of Seoul and more than 6000 total, the defenses at the border could realistically face something like half a million rounds in the first few hours if this escalated to that... which I really hope it doesn't

I think your numbers are wrong, last I looked it was about 10,000 artillary pieces aimed at the South alone with the majority at Seoul. I could be wrong, I will try to confirm. The 10,000 pieces does not include regimental, divisional and headquarter mobile artillary

A big chunk of those are in hardened shelters protected by a fairly sophisticated SAM network.

If it was 10,000 pieces, they would probably be able to fire 3 to 4 Salvo's before the American's and South Koreans could fire counterbattery, even more if air or naval assets were required.

I remember reading that within the first hour of a war, Seoul would look like the surface of the moon. If South Korea hit Seoul with even 10,000 shells the effects would be devestating.

[Bigtime]

Damn. 10,000 pieces of artillery. I thought the 500 number was way too low.

[VladtheImpaler]

10,000 is not really that much if you consider that the Soviets, for example, finished WW2 with about 130,000 (sorry, going off memory - could be more), and concentrated 2,000/km in breakthrough sectors.
IMHO, the North Korean army is a mirage. A lot of bluster, and big numbers, but I think it will collapse very quickly after a few hard blows...

[Locke]

Sorry guys! That was just me, some basterd stole my Cup-O-Noodles and I got a little stabby but alls I had was this gun.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

10,000 is not really that much if you consider that the Soviets, for example, finished WW2 with about 130,000 (sorry, going off memory - could be more), and concentrated 2,000/km in breakthrough sectors.
IMHO, the North Korean army is a mirage. A lot of bluster, and big numbers, but I think it will collapse very quickly after a few hard blows...

I don't disagree with that, but they've concentrated a lot of their efforts on infantry and armour and artillary. Their airforce is pretty shabby and their navy is nothing to write home about except that they bought a lot of Soviet latest generation submarines.

They do have numbers though, but I would think that a American Training South Korean Army would peel a lot of those numbers back pretty quickly.

[Shazam]

All the South Koreans need to do is carpet bomb packages with rice and kimchi. The North Korean forces will surrender instantly.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

10,000 is not really that much if you consider that the Soviets, for example, finished WW2 with about 130,000 (sorry, going off memory - could be more), and concentrated 2,000/km in breakthrough sectors.
IMHO, the North Korean army is a mirage. A lot of bluster, and big numbers, but I think it will collapse very quickly after a few hard blows...

Just because more existed in the army of another country at some point in history doesn't mean that 10000 isn't that much. It's a lot. Statements like this drive me crazy.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think your numbers are wrong, last I looked it was about 10,000 artillary pieces aimed at the South alone with the majority at Seoul. I could be wrong, I will try to confirm. The 10,000 pieces does not include regimental, divisional and headquarter mobile artillary

A big chunk of those are in hardened shelters protected by a fairly sophisticated SAM network.

If it was 10,000 pieces, they would probably be able to fire 3 to 4 Salvo's before the American's and South Koreans could fire counterbattery, even more if air or naval assets were required.

I remember reading that within the first hour of a war, Seoul would look like the surface of the moon. If South Korea hit Seoul with even 10,000 shells the effects would be devestating.

I was working off memory, but it seems my numbers were a little old. That was what they had back in between 1984 to 1992.

Between 1984 and 1992, the army added about 1,000 tanks, over 2,500 APC/IFV, and about 6,000 artillery pieces and rocket launchers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Shazam

All the South Koreans need to do is carpet bomb packages with rice and kimchi. The North Korean forces will surrender instantly.

The most inhumane carpet bombing of all time?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Shazam

All the South Koreans need to do is carpet bomb packages with rice and kimchi. The North Korean forces will surrender instantly.

Why, out of all the people in North Korea, their army is at the front of the line for food and is relatively well fed.

These guys are hyper loyal and heavily indoctrinated through political education, and through the fear of the North Korean Army's brutal dicipline.

In the Korean War, it wasn't the average soldier that broke, it was the officers.

[FlameOn]

I read somewhere only a fraction of their artillery have the range to hit Seoul, but even if it's 2-3k, Seoul is toast in one or two salvos which doesn't take more than half an hour.

Kinda makes you wonder if they should move the G20 summit somewhere more stable.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

10,000 is not really that much if you consider that the Soviets, for example, finished WW2 with about 130,000 (sorry, going off memory - could be more), and concentrated 2,000/km in breakthrough sectors.
IMHO, the North Korean army is a mirage. A lot of bluster, and big numbers, but I think it will collapse very quickly after a few hard blows...

You also have to remember that modern artillary has longer range, can deliver huge payloads, fire faster are more mobile, and are far more accurate then WW2 Era guns. North Korea also has a huge stockpile of chemical weapons, and probably wouldn't be adverse to using them.

I would probably say that the NK could deliver equivalent destruction from further out with their 10,000 pieces then the russians could with 130,000 pieces.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Damn. 10,000 pieces of artillery. I thought the 500 number was way too low.

500 is the number of long range artillery pieces with the range to hit Seoul without movement, though again these are old numbers from when I used to read globalsecurity.org a lot. The rest of the North's stuff is older, out of date and shorter range.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Someone save the KPOP!