Simpleton Canadians

[HOZ]

So are Muslims more equal than the rest of us?


YouTube revelations led to more disclosures. Respected Middle East scholar, Daniel Pipes, witnessed beveiled folk -- whether male or female, he couldn't tell -- swanning unchallenged through Canadian boarding controls. A former U.S. Special Forces soldier reportedly saw arrogant face-veiled women "harangue" and threaten a screener with lawsuits for daring to ask to see their faces in a private room. The screener caved, let them pass, and was humiliated with laughter from the victorious women who -- in Arabic -- disparaged "simpleton Canadians."

Sometimes people are so open-minded that their brains fall out.

[Codes]

The article is right. Canadians need to stand up for Canadians. We have our own belief systems, traditions, laws and regulations, and they need to be upheld.

This is Canada, and people need to play by our rules. It makes me sick how politically correct we're trying to be to preserve our "friendly Canadian" image. If we're not careful, we'll soon forget what it is to be Canadian entirely.

I have no problem with people from different cultures sharing this great country, but they must meet us in the middle. This is not their home country afterall. There are certain traditions that have no place in Canadian society.

[puckluck]

Damn moooslims and their backwards thinking!

They should have to show their faces in a private room. Many muslim woman show their faces with no problem, but sometimes you get a arrogant one who has no clue why she is wearing it in the first place. They want to see your face for identification reason not to check you out so eff off and take it off for a second. Makes us normal muslims look ######ed.

[Devils'Advocate]

I think the whole "showing your face" thing is terribly insulting. The religious reasoning behind it is that women are told that men are biologically unable to control their sex drive and if they are tempted by a beautiful woman, they will at the least be tempted into sin in an aims to have sex with the woman and at the worst rape. So if a woman is raped, it is her fault for looking sexy. Therefore they must cover their bodies completely.

Codes: Most ARE willing to meet halfway. One of my closest friends came from Somalia. His daughters, while they DO wear the hijab, have been very well educated and have good jobs. His family cheer for Canada at the Olympics, his son is learning hockey, his English is near perfect and his children are tri-lingual (Somali, English, French). However, there are a few that refuse to meet halfway. And the anti-multicultural folk, (HOZ has in the past railed against multiculturalism) they seem to put a spotlight on these few. The attempt is to paint all Muslims, or all minorities, with the same brush.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I think the whole "showing your face" thing is terribly insulting. The religious reasoning behind it is that women are told that men are biologically unable to control their sex drive and if they are tempted by a beautiful woman....SNIP

Modesty is at the heart of Muslim life....for men and women. Here's an interesting question/answer that took me 5 seconds to find.

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http://islam.about.com/od/dress/p/clothing_reqs.htm

1st Requirement: What parts of the body are to be covered:

The first bit of guidance given in Islam describes the parts of the body which must be covered in public.

For women: In general, standards of modesty call for a woman to cover her body, particularly her chest. The Qur'an calls for women to "draw their coverings over their chests," and the Prophet Muhammad instructed believing women to cover their bodies except for their face and hands. Most Muslims interpret this to require headcoverings for women. Some Muslim women cover the entire body, including the face and/or hands.


For men: The minimum amount to be covered is between the navel and the knee.

-------------------------------------

As for the women at the airport - it had nothing to do with religion. It has to do with the same reason people think they can fight a parking ticket if there's a spelling mistake on it........they fight because they know they can.

Now my solution to the problem is pretty simple. I would say that refusing a simple request (such as a private showing of the face) is pretty suspicious behavior and warrants escalated treatment. They should have been subject to a strip search, complete with bomb/drug sniffing dogs. Maybe then they wouldn't hide behind their religion when inconvenienced like every other person on the planet.

[firebug]

I think to be consistent, muslim men should also be veiled.

After all, "men are biologically unable to control their sex drive and if they are tempted by a handsome man, they will at the least be tempted into sin in an aims to have sex with the man and at the worst rape. So if a man is raped, it is his fault for looking sexy. Therefore they must cover their bodies completely"

And we know there are gay men out there after all.

And since gay sex is more sinful than straight sex, therefore it would be logical to assume that it is also more sinful to be tempted into gay sex.

Because this isn't about the oppression of women, but rather the avoidance of sin and its temptation, right?

~bug

[North East Goon]

If they refuse to show there faces, pull out the rubber gloves and examine them entirely!

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by firebug

I think to be consistent, muslim men should also be veiled.

After all, "men are biologically unable to control their sex drive and if they are tempted by a handsome man, they will at the least be tempted into sin in an aims to have sex with the man and at the worst rape. So if a man is raped, it is his fault for looking sexy. Therefore they must cover their bodies completely"

And we know there are gay men out there after all.

And since gay sex is more sinful than straight sex, therefore it would be logical to assume that it is also more sinful to be tempted into gay sex.

Because this isn't about the oppression of women, but rather the avoidance of sin and its temptation, right?

~bug

Not in Iran.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...25/2042189.htm

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Not in Iran.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...25/2042189.htm

LOL.....I was in NYC when he gave that speech. Beforehand, you got this sense that the population didn't really want him there, but were interested to at least 'Hear the guy out'. Afterwards, you couldn't walk 10ft without hearing jokes about the guy.....it became a city wide phenomenon within hours.

I always wondered if he knew how much fun people were poking at him. The front page of every paper in town was openly mocking him for being so stupid. The laughter lasted until he addressed the UN......(then people got angry).

[Sluggo]

Yeah speaking of Iran if she showed that sort of attitude towards a Iranian security officer she would be publicly whipped or worse.

[Codes]

Devil's Advocate:

A great percentage do meet us halfway, and many embrace what it is to be Canadian while maintaining certain aspects of their heritage. I also have many friends from abroad, and you wouldn't be able to pick them out as "any less Canadian" than the next person.

What I'm really worried about is Canada eventually having similar problems as France and Britain where immigrant populations simply aren't integrating into society (thought I hope we don't ever get to the point of banning burkas a la France). What bothers me is when their ideals begin to dictate how Canadian society operates, and they treat Canada like their homeland. Obviously only the extreme cases make the news (ie: the lady in this story) and it's not the norm, but it does highlight a very real problem where Canadians are too afraid to uphold our own values should it offend someone else.

I'm not being close-minded, or unaccepting, but count me as one of those people that feel it might be time for Canada to put it's foot down, and remind everyone living here that this is Canada. That might sound more harsh than I intend it to be (here I go fearing that I might offend someone lol), but for the interest of discussion, I'll say it.

[Russic]

Meeting half way should be what Canadians do best. For many items (I'm thinking turbans in the RCMP), these cultural differences don't really matter. I understand that some people get worked up about things like that, but those situations are nowhere near as serious as religious beliefs impacting public safety.

In the case of airport security is it important for security and people of other cultures to meet half way, and if the individual going through a screen is unwilling to meet half way, I believe they should be forced.

[Ozy_Flame]

This isn't a question about multiculturalism as much as it is just airport security measures. Obviously the rules / codes of conduct in this terminal were not clearly outlined, or they were misinterpreted.

When I left New Zealand I went and saw the Shire and took a branch of the party tree (the one that Bilbo let off all those fireworks). I managed to get through customs in New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Japan, the US and Canada just by telling them that story, yet I was bringing in foreign fauna /plant life which normally should have been confiscated.

It's sad that there is an obnoxious individual playing up the religion card, but ultimately CBSA (or whomever) has to grab a bigger set of balls.

[peter12]

I think this is about multiculturalism insofar as we need to evaluate what it means to be a Canadian and live in a modern liberal democracy. As many have said above, on a political and moral level, I find the burqa or niqab to be revoltingly offensive to my ideas of a free society. This is a potentially dangerous stance as it can devolve into a sort of fascist attitude, especially in a mass society.

But I'm with Oxy_Flame. As a security issue, this is such a no-brainer.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Codes

it might be time for Canada to put it's foot down, and remind everyone living here that this is Canada.

This is so vague. What is Canada? What does it mean to be a Canadian? Isn't Canada always evolving?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by troutman

This is so vague. What is Canada? What does it mean to be a Canadian? Isn't Canada always evolving?

Evolving from where and into what?

[REDVAN]

If they are so concerned about a man seeing them without their coverings on (I doubt this is the full reason), then I'm sure there is a female customs officer.

Hell, I'm sure we could even arrange for a Muslim female customs officer, if there isn't already, if it has to be for some religious reason.

There's ways to fix this that don't involve allowing certain citizens/visitors a free pass, nor disrespecting their religious beliefs.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

If they are so concerned about a man seeing them without their coverings on (I doubt this is the full reason), then I'm sure there is a female customs officer.

Hell, I'm sure we could even arrange for a Muslim female customs officer, if there isn't already, if it has to be for some religious reason.

There's ways to fix this that don't involve allowing certain citizens/visitors a free pass, nor disrespecting their religious beliefs.

AFAIK they are way ahead of you and those guidelines are in place. A female officer is supposed to bring the woman into a private room and have her remove her veil.

THe problem is that some passengers who are of the muslim faith and wear facial coverings have decided to use scare tactics, threatening lawsuits and such, to get right by the screening process.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by peter12

Evolving from where and into what?

I don't know. Whatever it means to be "Canadian"; surely this is not a static thing.

[I_H8_Crawford]

How is refusing to show your face any different from refusing to show your passport/photo ID?

IMO let them keep it on, they just don't pass security and miss their flight instead.