Visiting the UK ?

[Pinner]

Seems they don't want our tourist dollars.

Carstairs woman Leah Spenst, 26, was booted from the U.K. before her six-month vacation with her English boyfriend even began. After telling U.K. immigration officials she quit her job back home, she was tossed in jail and eventually sent packing.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad.../14317401.html

[Cowperson]

If she were a dark-haired Algerian in a burqa instead of blonde, blue-eyed Albertan, we'd probably agree with the immigration officer.

Nevertheless, it looks like an idiotic decision, particularly since she's readily trained in a profession and should be the kind of citizen every country would want, even if that isn't her intent.

Cowperson

[WilsonFourTwo]

I feel bad for her, for sure.

That said, I'm sure this happens many times a day all over the world. The planet has become so anti-immigration that these incidents have to occur at some point.

"So you have all your stuff in a suitcase, no home or job to return to, and you're living with your boyfriend for 6 months?" If I was a border agent, I'd probably turn you away as well (cause it's my job, not cause I want to).

[Pinner]

Well she speaks English and works in the dental industry... I'm shocked they let her leave.

[hockeycop]

I do agree with the Immigration Officer and likely would have made the same decision. Take the media spin out of it and look at the facts:

- unemployed (quit her job)
- homeless (gave up her apartment)
- one way ticket (don't even need to explain this)
- limited funds ($6000 can go fast in a place like the UK)
- no real ties to her home country (she quit everything and gave up her place)

Simple denied entry. Not deported and not banned from returning. If she would have followed the advice of the "journalist" and lied, she probably would still be in a detention facility. They were suspicious already, so if she lied it would have probably went like this:

IO: Do you have a job back home?
Traveler: Yes
IO: Where? What do you do? Are you still employed?
Trav: I am a dental assistant in Alberta. Ummm... Yes.
IO: Show me some proof. Recent pay stub? Or I could call your place of employment to verify you are just on leave and have a job to return to.
Trav: Ummm... Ok, I quit my job. Sorry for the lie.
IO: You just comitted a federal offence. You will now be deported and barred from returning.
Trav: Oh... fiddlesticks.

I should also add that has nothing to do with "not wanting our tourist dollars". It has everything to do with protecting THEIR country from unlawful immigration practices. Millions of visitors visit their country every year, a handful of Canadians get denied for this same reason. I support their right to keep undesireable and nonbonafide travelers out of their country. If you think Canadian Immigration Officers don't deal with similar cases and do the same thing, you're fooling yourself. It just doesn't make the news every time, because IT IS NOT NEWS!

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Well she speaks English and works in the dental industry... I'm shocked they let her leave.

Why? That's about as marketable a skill in the UK as being a cod fisherman in Alberta.

But seriously, if she had gone through the appropriate channels to get a working visa, she would probably have been alright. FFS, I just did a Google search for "Canada work abroad" and in less than a minute found this page: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/wo...y/whocanapply/

Since she's under 31 and had the minimum savings, she could have qualified and would have been able to get into the UK without any problem.

Originally Posted by hockeycop

- unemployed (quit her job)
- homeless (gave up her apartment)
- one way ticket (don't even need to explain this)
- limited funds ($6000 can go fast in a place like the UK)
- no real ties to her home country (she quit everything and gave up her place)

Don't forget she was going to visit her British boyfriend. So, not only does she have no reason to return to Canada, she also has a potential incentive to not leave the UK.

I have no problem with her being disallowed into the country. $6,000 for six months? Even if you assume she's living rent-free with her boyfriend, that's not very much money.

It sounds like the treatment she received while in custody wasn't very good, which is unfortunate, but otherwise, she should have been a little smarter.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by hockeycop

They were suspicious already, so if she lied it would have probably went like this:

IO: Do you have a job back home?
Traveler: Yes
IO: Where? What do you do? Are you still employed?
Trav: I am a dental assistant in Alberta. Ummm... Yes.
IO: Show me some proof. Recent pay stub? Or I could call your place of employment to verify you are just on leave and have a job to return to.
Trav: Ummm... Ok, I quit my job. Sorry for the lie.
IO: You just comitted a federal offence. You will now be deported and barred from returning.
Trav: Oh... fiddlesticks.

Having gone through that twice, if you put a job on your entry card, they're not asking you for proof of employment, no one carries old paystubs across the Atlantic ocean just in case.

The deal sealer was probably the one-way ticket. But I dont even know how they got the rest of the information, like how much money she had on her or the fact that she was visiting a British boyfriend.

Disallowing entry because she might shack up with a Local and become landed is insane, so the UK Border Services determine who the local citizenry can and cant shag and just keep the ones they dont approve of out of the country?

[hockeycop]

If the Officer is suspicious he will ask for proof. Some people do travel with proof of employment, especially when asking a country if they can stay for that length of time. They got the rest of the information because they were suspicious and they asked questions.

Having a boyfriend there was not likely a problem. Quitting her job, one way ticket, and giving up her place of residence to "visit" that boyfriend are indicators of a problem.

[valo403]

I can't figure out why she wouldn't have simply applied for the work visa getbak posted, she would have had it in a matter of weeks if not days.

[hockeycop]

Working Holiday Program visas are incredibly easy to get and apply for. AND, they're good for a year! Officers would then negate their suspicions because she would be pre-authorized to work and live in the UK for a year!

[Matata]

When I showed up in the UK, the IO was all 'why are you here' me 'on my way to germany' , 'you know you can't just enter the UK all willy nilly'. I didn't say anything after that, then he wrote something in my passport. I showed up in scotland a few weeks later, they asked about what the first IO wrote in my passport, then just sent me non my way.

So in summary, getting into the UK is kind of messed up and I have no clue.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Is anyone else supprised Mikey_the_redneck hasn't shown up to tell us that this Immigration Officer was just on a power trip?

I'm pretty solidly on the side of the folks that think this chick kind of did it to herself.
If I was gonna go on an open ended trip to visit a girlfriend in another country, and was quitting my job and giving up my place of residence to do so, you can be damn sure I'd have applied for a working visa, becasue you've got to be ######ed to think that showing up with everything you own on a one way ticket, and no job or home back where you're coming from isn't going to raise a few questions about your intentions to stick around.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Is anyone else supprised Mikey_the_redneck hasn't shown up to tell us that this Immigration Officer was just on a power trip?

I'm pretty solidly on the side of the folks that think this chick kind of did it to herself.
If I was gonna go on an open ended trip to visit a girlfriend in another country, and was quitting my job and giving up my place of residence to do so, you can be damn sure I'd have applied for a working visa, becasue you've got to be ######ed to think that showing up with everything you own on a one way ticket, and no job or home back where you're coming from isn't going to raise a few questions about your intentions to stick around.

She should have just flown into Brussels and taken the train into London, they dont even check there.

[Jayems]

This is why it's nice to have a British passport.

We have separate lines at the airports so I don't have to wait with all you other riff-raff before they throw your ass in jail.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Locke

Disallowing entry because she might shack up with a Local and become landed is insane, so the UK Border Services determine who the local citizenry can and cant shag and just keep the ones they dont approve of out of the country?

It's not so much the shagging of locals as it is planning on visiting one specific local: with an open-ended itinerary; limited funds; and no way to legally acquire additional money. I'm sure they would have welcomed her with open arms if she was a Canadian dental hygienist who planned to tour around the UK for a month, getting drunk and shagging a bunch of crooked-toothed blokes before heading back to her well-paid job in Canada.

Every time I've entered a foreign country, I've been asked where I was going in the country; what I would be doing while there; who I would be visiting while there; when I would be leaving the country; and what I do for a living back home. Every time, I've had definitive answers, so I've never received more probing questions (or any other probing). If you don't have definitive answers to those basic questions, I'm sure the questioning gets a little more in depth. I'm sure you could refuse to answer any of the questions, but they can just as easily refuse you admittance to their country. It's a lot easier to keep you out initially than it is to throw you out in the future.

She wanted to enter the country as a tourist, for an indefinite period of time up to 6 months, with less than enough money to support herself over that period of time. If I'm evaluating her, I see someone who is either going to become a burden on the social infrastructure, or someone who will be forced to seek illegal employment to feed herself.

Originally Posted by hockeycop

Working Holiday Program visas are incredibly easy to get and apply for. AND, they're good for a year! Officers would then negate their suspicions because she would be pre-authorized to work and live in the UK for a year!

According to that link, the British program allows you 24 months.

Then, I'm sure if you've established yourself in the UK somewhere, it wouldn't be too difficult to start the process of permanent immigration beyond that 2 year period.

[Pinner]

The story shocked me because she naively told the truth and was tossed in jail and deported ! Permanently affecting her Visa which will likely be more important in the future.

This story reminds me of a guy going to Vegas for the weekend, when asked at US customs in the airport if he had ever smoked pot, he answered "when I was in high school" they denied entry. LoL

[hockeycop]

Originally Posted by Pinner

The story shocked me because she naively told the truth and was tossed in jail and deported ! Permanently affecting her Visa which will likely be more important in the future.

This story reminds me of a guy going to Vegas for the weekend, when asked at US customs in the airport if he had ever smoked pot, he answered "when I was in high school" they denied entry. LoL

She wasn't deported, she was refused entry. There is a huge difference. She has the option to return when she gets her life in order. If she would have lied, she would have been deported (never come back).

Americans don't deny entry for some guy who smoked pot in high school. They deny entry for CONVICTIONS for crimes against "moral turpitude" (drug convictions are included).

Don't let the Michael Platt spin fool you into believing she did nothing wrong. The only thing she did RIGHT, was telling the truth. Everything else brands her with fail.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by hockeycop

She wasn't deported, she was refused entry. There is a huge difference. She has the option to return when she gets her life in order. If she would have lied, she would have been deported (never come back).

Americans don't deny entry for some guy who smoked pot in high school. They deny entry for CONVICTIONS for crimes against "moral turpitude" (drug convictions are included).

Don't let the Michael Platt spin fool you into believing she did nothing wrong. The only thing she did RIGHT, was telling the truth. Everything else brands her with fail.

I don't know what they generally do, but they are able to deny entry to someone who has admitted to using illegal drugs in the past. No conviction required. Legally they can deny based on pretty much anything AFAIK.

[Pinner]

I believe she is an honest yet naive small town girl that simply told the truth.

Someone in her position who wanted to deceive the customs agents would have.

[hockeycop]

Originally Posted by Pinner

I believe she is an honest yet naive small town girl that simply told the truth.

Someone in her position who wanted to deceive the customs agents would have.

Wrong. She just had "easy refusal" written all over her. They had grounds to bounce her back before she even opened her mouth. You're getting sucked in by Platt's moronic comments. Liars make it way harder on themselves. I have good friends who work as Immigration Officers in Canada and the USA (CBP posted to Calgary).

I don't know what they generally do, but they are able to deny entry to someone who has admitted to using illegal drugs in the past. No conviction required. Legally they can deny based on pretty much anything AFAIK.

No, I just got off the phone with a US CBP Officer who confirmed your information is false. However, if you show up stinking like weed but don't have any on you, they will work harder to find a different reason to bounce you.

NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO TRAVEL TO A FOREIGN COUNTRY. IT IS A PRIVILAGE THAT MAY BE GRANTED BY THAT COUNTRIES IMMIGRATION OFFICERS.

The onus is on the traveller to prove they are admissible to a country when seeking entry.