What's a 'dost'? Canada to change National Anthem?

[Devils'Advocate]

So in the throne speech, the Conservatives have suggested looking at changing "true patriot love in all thy sons command" to "true patriot love thou dost in us command".

Now I heard the reasoning last night, and I'm okay with it. Many will say that it's just political correctness gone overboard and that the government has better things to do. But I don't have a problem with the reasoning... our female athletes did us proud at the Olympics... they are serving in Afghanistan... women are an important part of our society. More than just "sons" are able to command a patriotic love of our country.

But what they hell is 'dost'? Can't we find a better way to make it gender neutral? Some have suggested "in all of us command". Still doesn't sound perfect, but it's better than 'dost'. I'd rather leave it, insulting as it is, than have to sing 'thou dost'.

[Hack&Lube]

it's elizabethan english to match the rest of the song (see thee rise, etc,) To correctly use "thou", you have to follow it with "doest"

Translates to: "true Patriot Love, you do in us command"

"true patriot love thou dost in us command" are actually the original lyrics as written in 1908 until changed again a few years later so it's not like it's out of the blue. I mean, to make it all contemporary english maybe we should sing:

Oh Canada
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all of us command
With glowing hearts we see you rise
The true North, red not blue!
From far and wide, Oh Canada
We stand on guard for you
God keep our land glorious and true!
Oh Canada, we stand on guard for you
Oh Canada, we stand on guard for ski doos!

[jayswin]

So in the throne speech, the Conservatives have suggested looking at changing "true patriot love in all thy sons command" to "true patriot love thou dost in us command".

That sounds too German. It reminds me of Du Hast by Ramstein. Do they want a line in our national anthem to sound like it was written by Germans?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Can't we find a better way to make it gender neutral? Some have suggested "in all of us command". Still doesn't sound perfect, but it's better than 'dost'. I'd rather leave it, insulting as it is, than have to sing 'thou dost'.

That reminds of when you go to Mexico and mexicans try to make english signs for tourists, and then all the tourists take pictures of the sign and laugh because one of the words they translated makes the sign sound stupid. eg: "You break it, you pay it!"

Do you want a line in our national anthem to sound like it was written by Mexicans that don't speak english?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by flameswin

That sounds too German. It reminds me of Du Hast by Ramstein. Do they want a line in our national anthem to sound like it was written by Germans?

English is a germanic language. Du Hast = Thou Hath = You Have

We should leave it alone. So what if the girls won all our Olympic medals? They still aren't sons of Canada

[Redliner]

I hope they just leave it alone. People read way too much into things like this. It's pretty obvious that "all thy sons" is intended to refer to all the people of Canada, the same way the word "mankind" encompasses all human beings, male or female. Change this, and next there will be a movement to remove the "God keep our land" line. Or what about the people who immigrated here? This isn't their "home and native land", so I guess we'd better change that too so we don't offend anyone. Come to think of it, we should just scrap anything with words and go with something instrumental that will be universally accepted. We could all just hum the tune.

[jayswin]

Also, slightly on topic, my favorite Olympic athlete is Meghan Agosta from the women's hockey team. I love her, and googled the **** out of her during the Olympics. That's why the canadian top searches of the week made me feel like a total stalker, but also made me feel a little proud, knowing that I did my part in getting her on the list...

1. Vancouver Olympics
2. Joannie Rochette
3. Andrew Koenig
4. Olympic medal count
5. Olympic Hockey
6. American Idol
7. Yu-Na Kim
8. Sidney Crosby
9. Hannah Storm
10. Cheryl Bernard
11. Marie Osmond
12. The Bachelor
13. Tessa Virtue
14. Olympic Closing Ceremonies
15. Sven Kramer
16. Walter Koenig
17. Chile earthquake
18. Meghan freakin Agosta
19. Tsunami
20. Growing Pains

[Russic]

I expect this kind of stuff out of the NDP or the liberals on a slow day in parliament, but the conservatives? Seems odd.

[Thor]

Just replace "God keep our land" to "Lets keep our Land"

Because we keep our land, no magical being.

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by Thor

Just replace "God keep our land" to "Lets keep our Land"

Because we keep our land, no magical being.

Saw that coming.

[Thor]

Good, cause the 'god' wasnt part of the anthem to begin with.

I guess you disagree, I think its up to people on earth to do with what they will with Canada, not up to anyone imagined or real in some godly realm.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Redliner

Change this, and next there will be a movement to remove the "God keep our land" line.

There's already been one, and it needs to go. "O Canada, glorious and free" ... might be too many O Canadas, but that's what I sing.

[DownhillGoat]

Do I still have to take my hat off if the lyrics are changed?

[worth]

That would be great, except the reasoning is wrong. SONS does not refer to a male. If it did, it would have an apostrophe. It would read "in all they sons' command"

"Sons" in fact refers to the collective. The citizen of Canada, and therefore is already inclusive, so changing the anthem makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. It is not gender biased to begin with!

Contrary to popular, if deeply misguided, belief it does not mean that sons, i.e. men, are in command. If it did, there’d be an apostrophe after the final “s.” It does not even mean that one son commands. If it did, there’d be an apostrophe before the final “s.” The “thy” directly addresses the entity of Canada itself, as do the lines “with glowing hearts, we see thee rise” and “we stand on guard for thee.” So, “thy sons” means “your citizens.” True patriot love, in other words, is summoned up, evoked, stirred, roused, in all your citizens, Canada.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/columni...440/story.html

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

English is a germanic language. Du Hast = Thou Hath = You Have

So if I'm following you correctly, and I'm pretty sure I am, you're suggesting that we should just change the national anthem to that Rammstein song. I'm on board.

[Komskies]

This is the most ######ed thing I've ever read. And no, I'm not going to apologize for saying ######ed.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Komskies

This is the most ######ed thing I've ever read. And no, I'm not going to apologize for saying ######ed.

Is that kind of like "retartened"?

[Komskies]

######ationized.

[algernon]

I hope he has on a flame retartened suit.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thor

Good, cause the 'god' wasnt part of the anthem to begin with.

I guess you disagree, I think its up to people on earth to do with what they will with Canada, not up to anyone imagined or real in some godly realm.

What do you mean god wasn't part of the original lyrics?

There have been multiple versions and they all mention god

The Dr Richardson version had the lyrics

" O Canada! Our fathers' land of old
Thy brow is crown'd with leaves of red and gold.
Beneath the shade of the Holy Cross
Thy children own their birth
No stains thy glorious annals gloss
Since valour shield thy hearth.
Almighty God! On thee we call
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall,
Defend our rights, forfend this nation's thrall."

The McCoulloch version which never really took off

" O Canada! in praise of thee we sing;
From echoing hills our anthems proudly ring.
With fertile plains and mountains grand
With lakes and rivers clear,
Eternal beauty, thos dost stand
Throughout the changing year.
Lord God of Hosts! We now implore
Bless our dear land this day and evermore,
Bless our dear land this day and evermore."

The Buchan version

" O Canada, our heritage, our love
Thy worth we praise all other lands above.
From sea to see throughout their length
From Pole to borderland,
At Britain's side, whate'er betide
Unflinchingly we'll stand
With hearts we sing, "God save the King",
Guide then one Empire wide, do we implore,
And prosper Canada from shore to shore."

The Weir version (official)

"O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North, strong and free!
From far and wide, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free !
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee."

So unless I'm missing something. They all mention god in one form or another.