Virtulization - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Pastiche · 02-01-2010, 10:33 AM

Does CP use server virtulization so if when it starts getting hammered during a busy time it opens up more computing power from other servers?

Just curious.

photon · 02-01-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Does CP use server virtulization so if when it starts getting hammered during a busy time it opens up more computing power from other servers?

Just curious.

No, the site runs off of a single co-located server.

Running this kind of busy forum site in a cloud setup really hasn't been done much from what we (teamchachi, the server guy and myself) have been able to see... the high number of connections and raw processor requirements really don't lend themselves well to that kind of setup, at least not with the pricing schemes they have.

We've looked at Amazon and Rackforce and the monthly costs just to get what we have now would be many times what we pay for our colocation now.

And really how often does a Phaneuf caliber player get traded? Is it worth spending a lot more $$ just to cover the once in a blue moon situations?

photon · 02-01-2010, 02:28 PM

Just to give you an idea of how unusual the traffic is right now.

HOOT · 02-02-2010, 02:33 PM

Any chance you could keep updating the image over the next few days? It's really interesting to see from an outsiders view point.

photon · 02-02-2010, 03:36 PM

Sure, I'll pull down another one tonight if I remember.

Azure · 02-02-2010, 04:31 PM

Phaneuf doesn't get traded every day, or every year....and we don't have this kind of craziness with the Flames.

But, what it did is attract a lot of new members. If we continue growing we might need something more.

When JayBo got signed or all the stuff with Fleury happened, the server wasn't as busy as it was now. Sure, this was a bigger deal, but 'server busy' is happening more and more these days.

Resolute 14 · 02-02-2010, 04:47 PM

As much as this may be a once in a blue moon scenario, it is also a decent opportunity to help raise some money for Bingo to pay the upkeep here. I guess, simply, what upgrade does the server require most, and what would it cost? If nothing else, I am more than willing to throw a few dollars Bingo's way in appreciation of what he provides here, even if everyone has gone bonkers lately. It certainly isn't free to host a place like this.

photon · 02-02-2010, 04:58 PM

There's different ways to go about it.. the thing is we're really at a large hurdle, not a lower one like more memory or more bandwidth (like we were before).

The limiting factor right now is the CPU. A CPU upgrade would help, but is very expensive because the server uses Socket 604 processors. We have 2 3GHz ones right now, so we'd have to buy two dual core ones minimum (or a single quad core), and prices on those new are in the thousands of dollars area. More than we paid for the whole server to begin with depending on which ones! The server is old enough and off warranty that I don't like that direction as a long term solution, plus more CPU might just put the bottleneck somewhere else (disk).

A better solution would be to have two servers.. one for the web server, one for the database. That would scale much better.

However of course that means 2 things.. a new server itself is required. We can save $$ by going with a commodity based hardware server (basically a glorified PC) rather than a "real" server. But that's just a one time cost.

The other factor is a 2nd server doubles the monthly costs for hosting the site. I don't know the finances of the site so that'd be a question for Bingo but I assume doubling the monthly costs isn't something to be done lightly.

As Azure said it's a balance.. getting the resources to handle a once in a decade trade isn't a good use of resources, but on the other hand the site does continue to grow. Last year we only had slowdowns at the trade deadline and the draft, this year we get slowdowns after some games as well, but as Azure said in very small chunks.

Anything you donate will of course go to offset the monthly costs and any maintenance and is greatly appreciated.

photon · 02-02-2010, 05:33 PM

Yeah_Baby · 02-02-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Anything you donate will of course go to offset the monthly costs and any maintenance and is greatly appreciated.

Don't you think though, if Bingo made a firm decision where we wanted to go in terms of upgrades, we could start a drive with a certain goal?

GIAA · 02-02-2010, 06:49 PM

There are currently 3,923 Active Members..if each member donated a dollar we would pretty much at $4000 dollars.

Erick Estrada · 02-02-2010, 06:49 PM

Some fan sites offer a premium membership for a small fee and during game day and other events only premium members are allowed to view and post. This limits the traffic to manageable levels as well can subsidize server upgrades. Other benefits are that trolls likely won't pay a fee so the site is rid of them on gamedays. I use this site often so I have no issues paying if it helps upgrade the experience.

Berger_4_ · 02-02-2010, 06:52 PM

Sorry for putting that in the wrong forum photon

Why don't we start a drive? There's got to be enough regular users here that would donate say, 10 bucks that we could hit that 4000 dollar mark AC mentioned. And maybe putting a premium on membership isn't a bad idea. What's another 5 bucks or whatever a year?

photon · 02-02-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Some fan sites offer a premium membership for a small fee and during game day and other events only premium members are allowed to view and post. This limits the traffic to manageable levels as well can subsidize server upgrades. Other benefits are that trolls likely won't pay a fee so the site is rid of them on gamedays. I use this site often so I have no issues paying if it helps upgrade the experience.

Yup certainly one option. Personally I don't like any kind of setup which would limit access for anyone, I'd prefer to maintain full access to forums for everyone and have perks for members (or sponsors or sugardaddies or whatever you want to call them). But that's an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that particular way before.

This kind of thing should be suggested to Bingo too, as we're just the tech guy and moderators and such, money type decisions are his.

murray1 · 02-02-2010, 06:54 PM

The site works fine when nothing is going on but come trades, exciting wins/losses or eventually(hopefully) the playoffs there is too much traffic.

Murph · 02-02-2010, 07:00 PM

Normally I'd stay our of threads like this and leave it to the veterans, but in this case I think an opinion from someone of my CP vintage would be useful.

I'd be more than happy to pay a modest yearly fee ($10-$20) for the odd perk or two... and those perks wouldn't have to be anything special. So I figure if I would, then there's got to be more.

photon · 02-02-2010, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berger_4_

Sorry for putting that in the wrong forum photon

Why don't we start a drive? There's got to be enough regular users here that would donate say, 10 bucks that we could hit that 4000 dollar mark AC mentioned. And maybe putting a premium on membership isn't a bad idea. What's another 5 bucks or whatever a year?

No worries, I know your intent was just to discuss it.

Things like this usually have to be well thought out and planned as well; going into it quickly can end up with bad decisions and bad blood, I've seen forums fracture and disintegrate over forum donation drives.

You have to make sure you are doing the right thing tech wise.. you don't want to go to the well too many times and burn out the goodwill of your userbase. You have to be careful that you don't fragment and stratify your user base (i.e. giving sponsers a special star on their name, and then sponsors deride non-sponsors, feel their opinion is worth more, or feel they are above being banned).

Any system has to be administrated and maintained, with guidelines to follow for specific circumstances, and that takes time and effort, and unless the membership fees are going to pay a salary that means volunteers.. trust is a big issue too when talking about money.

And is that even in the Vision(tm)? Free, flat, open, is easy to maintain, everything else adds complexity.

None of these are unanswerable question or insurmountable obstacles, but the cost of the answers and solutions (in time and $$ and effort and will and dedication) have to be evaluated with the overall vision, and if the slowness only happens a few days every year and once every 5 years when a core player gets traded midseason then that has to enter into the decision too.

Yeah_Baby · 02-02-2010, 07:13 PM

I'd suggest we look into it. I know its been crazy lately, but it seems some game nights have been really close to peak this season.

Leon · 02-02-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

No worries, I know your intent was just to discuss it.

Things like this usually have to be well thought out and planned as well; going into it quickly can end up with bad decisions and bad blood, I've seen forums fracture and disintegrate over forum donation drives.

You have to make sure you are doing the right thing tech wise.. you don't want to go to the well too many times and burn out the goodwill of your userbase. You have to be careful that you don't fragment and stratify your user base (i.e. giving sponsers a special star on their name, and then sponsors deride non-sponsors, feel their opinion is worth more, or feel they are above being banned).

Any system has to be administrated and maintained, with guidelines to follow for specific circumstances, and that takes time and effort, and unless the membership fees are going to pay a salary that means volunteers.. trust is a big issue too when talking about money.

And is that even in the Vision(tm)? Free, flat, open, is easy to maintain, everything else adds complexity.

None of these are unanswerable question or insurmountable obstacles, but the cost of the answers and solutions (in time and $$ and effort and will and dedication) have to be evaluated with the overall vision, and if the slowness only happens a few days every year and once every 5 years when a core player gets traded midseason then that has to enter into the decision too.

I was going to suggest an implementation of something a long these lines.

I would suspect that you could get away with some very casual goodies for users that donate. Things such as a personal user title or maybe slightly larger avatar/signature space could probably pass without giving most posters a false sense of superiority.

Salisbury · 02-02-2010, 07:42 PM

I agree, that something should be done, I would be willing to throw a donation into Bingo's or Photon's direction.
Prior to this server upgrade the "busy" message was annoying and frequent, I may be mistaken but it seems to be just as frequent now. With the growing knowledge about this forum I think an upgrade is inevitable must.
Today I was trying to post a response on the thread about Kotlik's flight cancellation explaining that it probably was actually cancelled.....only to be locked out on a non game day during the week!!!
What would this place be like if we made it past the first round? I am sure we all yearn for that problem!