Electricity Rant

[Indi]

:angry: I had mentioned electricity prices in Alberta since deregulation in another post, and then I started get mad....I have to explain what the heck is going on in Alberta since ol Ralphy decided deregulation was the way to go. Right now most people are on what is called the rr or regulated rate, this is right around the $.60/kwh. Prices for power, or what the Alberta Electrical System Operator is purchasing at, is around the $.50/kwh. I've brought in some data from the AESO web page showing the daily avg price for Aug 2004.....stinky hot months are generally the highest avg
Daily Average Pool Price Report

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Date Daily Average ($/MWh) Price Difference ($)
09/01/2004 57.53 30.41
08/31/2004 87.93 1.46
08/30/2004 86.47 57.68
08/29/2004 28.80 9.85
08/28/2004 18.94 14.14
08/27/2004 33.09 3.34
08/26/2004 29.74 9.21
08/25/2004 38.95 14.58
08/24/2004 24.37 10.67
08/23/2004 35.04 17.51
08/22/2004 52.55 10.02
08/21/2004 42.53 10.27
08/20/2004 52.79 4.95
08/19/2004 47.85 16.51
08/18/2004 64.36 20.02
08/17/2004 84.38 28.85
08/16/2004 55.53 12.73
08/15/2004 42.80 1.52
08/14/2004 41.28 28.82
08/13/2004 70.10 8.37
08/12/2004 78.47 26.55
08/11/2004 51.93 7.11
08/10/2004 44.82 4.45
08/09/2004 40.37 28.26
08/08/2004 12.11 4.13
08/07/2004 16.24 27.03
08/06/2004 43.27 3.25
08/05/2004 46.53 11.58
08/04/2004 58.10 41.05
08/03/2004 99.15 33.02
08/02/2004 66.13 5.57
08/01/2004 60.56 26.42


So, if you run the numbers, the price the AESO is paying for power is around the 50 MWH mark, or .50 kwH mark.......where is the $.10/kwh going? its not going into system upgrades, as these are the responsibility of the retailers (Enmax) etc. Look on your bill, line tariffs, system upgrade fees, along with the price of power.
The way the power system works in alberta is a pool bidding system. Each plant bids in its power in blocks ie 50 MW at 0 dollars, another 50 mw at $40.00 and so on. As the electrical load increases, each block is called up as req...the last block called would be the block setting the price. Clear as mud....... All the coal generators are going to bid blocks in the 0 dollar amount, 'cause these units cannot simply turn on and off....its a big deal to get these big bitches running after a trip. I'm starting to ramble.....back to my point.....so know we KNOW that we are getting ripped off on power.....the price charged to us does not float like natural gas, and there is so much power in this province right now that a monthly avg over the rate of $.60 is highly unlikely........then to top it off is the new power line. You see, there is a lot of stranded power in northern alberta, from the cogen units running in fort mac, the main line running to southern alberta is dangerously overloaded, and the govt knows this. So much so, they put out bids just after deregulation for more local based power in the South.....and they succeeded. There is a 120 MW plant in Balzac, there is a 250 MW plant 1 mile from that one, just on the northern calgary city limits. There is an 80 MW plant in Carseland, and there is another 120 MW plant just outside of strathmore....lots of power, but guess what, because the price of power is so low right now, these plants cannot run without a loss. So what does the govt do? do they pass on the extra $.10 to these plants to they can run...nope....they let the system destabilize in the calgary area so that the running voltage drops to dangerous levels. Now......the alta govt in all its wisdom has said that for the good of the province, they need to upgrade the power lines from Fort McMurray to Edmonton, and from Edmonton to Southern Alberta....hey, that sounds good. Oh no....the power producers lobbied Murray Smith into laying the whole cost of the line upgrades...millions of dollars...into our, the consumers lap. The govt is not spending one dollar, neither is the Syncrudes or Suncors, not a single penny. Meanwhile, we have several brand spanking new plants right in our own backyard, that cannot run due to economics. You want to see an extremely unreliable electrical system...have all the power in one centralized area....remember the big power outage, one of the recommendations to come out of that was to centralize the power industry....we are going the opposite way.
I think that everyone should write their MLA and demand that power prices be adjusted on a continual basis...not this fixed rate. Someone or something is making huge profits off our backs, and we in Southern Alberta are getting royally screwed becasue the big companies in Fort Mcmurray are whining that power prices are so low and their power is stranded.....its BU***HIT.

Whew, glad I got that off my chest

[Red]

I just installed fluorescent bulbs all over my house, 13W each so I think I am done fighting the power for now

My gas bill on the other hand.........
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Help For Love

[Tron_fdc]

One thing you missed that I'm sure will chap your hide....

Right before deregulation, the Alta government sold off its generator capacities to the highest bidders. Unfortunately, the auctions was so poorly advertised only a handful of companies came out to buy anything. The result?

Enmax, Epcor, and formerly Enron (not sure who took over their contracts) bought up most of the generating capacity in Alberta.

So while they p*ss and moan publicly about the price of power and how they have to buy it from the pool like everyone else before distribution, they fail to mention the fact that they fixed their cost of generation 5 yrs ago (I believe they paid 0.04 cents per kWhr). Not a lot of people know or understand this, and I count Klein as one of them.

City of Calgary...thank you for a company that continues to rape us on a daily basis!!

[Indi]

yeh, I knew about the map auctions...didnt want to further muddy the waters with that....but your right...I cant believe how little is really known about how badly we are getting screwed right now....it blows me away

[Incinerator]

I don't know what all those stupid numbers means, all I know is that my actual electricity usage was $13 this month and my bill came out to $44.61 after all the fees they tacked on there :mad2:

[Tron_fdc]

Yeah, the city run utilities (and they are city run, seeing as the board of directors is partly made up of aldermen) is an absolute clusterfudge. The industry is so hard to understand it's ridiculously easily to manipulate it, and hide things in peoples bills using terminology no one understands. For example: who here knows what an MCAF (municipal consent and access fee) is (Otherwise known as an "access fee" or "right of way" charge)? If I told you the city is still charging it out based on rates from 2000 (when electricity routinely spiked to levels up to 20x what it is today) would anyone be mad?

I particularily like it when I have to phone Enmax, and end up explaining things to their customer service reps. It's kinda funny when the phone operators run out of things to read off their cheat sheets.....

[Red]

Originally posted by Incinerator@Feb 10 2005, 06:59 PM
I don't know what all those stupid numbers means, all I know is that my actual electricity usage was $13 this month and my bill came out to $44.61 after all the fees they tacked on there :mad2:

$44.61? Are you Amish?

I am lucky to get a bill less than $150 and that's year round.
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REPLAYS.NET STARCRAFT2

[Lurch]

What you fail to recognize in your rant is that you use power mostly during peak hours, such as the few hours around dinner until you go to bed. The prices you quoted include very cheap prices for power at 3 in the morning, etc. An industrial consumer that uses power 24 hours a day, 7 days a week does in fact pay just over $50/MWh for power today.

[V]

Well, what are you gonna do? The EUB tries to keep things fair, but really, they're all in bed together. The whole idea of dereg was to create competition and therefore lower electricity prices. Well, do you really think that Enmax, Epcor and Direct Energy are in competition at all? Nope. My guess is they hold meetings together to decide how they'll set the distribution prices. Then they just meet each other's prices. That aint competition at all.

Everyone knew dereg wouldn't work. There were no rules in place, so the system got abused badly. Live and learn, I guess.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken@Feb 11 2005, 03:33 PM
Well, what are you gonna do? The EUB tries to keep things fair, but really, they're all in bed together. The whole idea of dereg was to create competition and therefore lower electricity prices. Well, do you really think that Enmax, Epcor and Direct Energy are in competition at all? Nope. My guess is they hold meetings together to decide how they'll set the distribution prices. Then they just meet each other's prices. That aint competition at all.

Everyone knew dereg wouldn't work. There were no rules in place, so the system got abused badly. Live and learn, I guess.

Can't wait until the same thing happens with health care.

[Lurch]

Well, what are you gonna do? The EUB tries to keep things fair, but really, they're all in bed together. The whole idea of dereg was to create competition and therefore lower electricity prices. Well, do you really think that Enmax, Epcor and Direct Energy are in competition at all? Nope. My guess is they hold meetings together to decide how they'll set the distribution prices. Then they just meet each other's prices. That aint competition at all.

Distribution prices are set exactly how they were set before deregulation. The ONLY part of your bill that is affected by deregulation is the energy charge. And wrt to energy prices, power prices have been BELOW what could have been achieved under regulation for the last two years as power developers have been making very poor returns.

[V]

Are you sure?? I thought there were riders on the bill that weren't there prior to dereg.

Couldn't say the power pool is my forte. Sounds like you know more than me.

[Tron_fdc]

Distribution prices are set exactly how they were set before deregulation. The ONLY part of your bill that is affected by deregulation is the energy charge.

Tranmission and distribution prices are a percentage of your consumption charge, as well as a cost based on your peak demand over a 12 month period (or they were 5 yrs ago when I was following it). Therefore, the higher your cunsumption charge the higher your T&D charges. Line charges have come up since deregulation, as well as the municipal charges (MCAF), so they're not set the same as they were before deregulation.

power prices have been BELOW what could have been achieved under regulation for the last two years as power developers have been making very poor returns.

I haven't followed Power Pool pricing the last few years, but I find that kind of hard to believe. Do you have any data on this? I'm curious to see if prices have in fact stabilized.

[V]

Originally posted by Lurch@Feb 11 2005, 08:54 AM
And wrt to energy prices, power prices have been BELOW what could have been achieved under regulation for the last two years as power developers have been making very poor returns.

I find this one hard to believe. Wasn't it this time last year that energy prices hit a whopping 10 cents/kWh?? No way it hits that high under a regulated system.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally posted by Dominicwasalreadytaken+Feb 11 2005, 05:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dominicwasalreadytaken @ Feb 11 2005, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lurch@Feb 11 2005, 08:54 AM
And wrt to energy prices, power prices have been BELOW what could have been achieved under regulation for the last two years as power developers have been making very poor returns.

I find this one hard to believe. Wasn't it this time last year that energy prices hit a whopping 10 cents/kWh?? No way it hits that high under a regulated system. [/b][/quote]
jeebus, I can't believe I save things like I do.

I just found an article written in '99 stating that prices are 5.32 cents/kWhr (all in, so commodity alone is going to be around 3.50/kWhr), and the first year of dereg put them into the $18.90/kWhr range.

Powerpool avg for 04/05 (commodity only) is $ 5.620/kWhr
Powerpool avg for 03/04 (commodity only) is $ 8.0510/kWhr

Link is HERE for current/historical pricing, if anyone cares.

Prices are still higher than under a regulated market.

[Lurch]

Alberta Power market is a key business line for the consulting company I'm with.

You did have some riders from 2001 through 2003 I think as a result of the move to deregulation.

Line charges have come up since deregulation, as well as the municipal charges (MCAF), so they're not set the same as they were before deregulation.

True, but these are still SET the same way, i.e. still regulated. Costs went up b/c Alberta underinvested in infrastructure for about 10 years (kind of a large part of the Klein revolution in many areas). Nonetheless, these charges are still 100% regulated.

I just found an article written in '99 stating that prices are 5.32 cents/kWhr (all in, so commodity alone is going to be around 3.50/kWhr), and the first year of dereg put them into the $18.90/kWhr range.

Powerpool avg for 04/05 (commodity only) is $ 5.620/kWhr
Powerpool avg for 03/04 (commodity only) is $ 8.0510/kWhr

Link is HERE for current/historical pricing, if anyone cares.

Prices are still higher than under a regulated market.

Natural gas costs (input into electricity generation) are up by about double or more since '99. Prices would also be well up under regulation, not to mention the fact that we have built about 4000 MW of new generation. This would have added to the cost basis under regulation by about 50%.

[Indi]

Originally posted by Lurch@Feb 11 2005, 11:05 PM
Alberta Power market is a key business line for the consulting company I'm with.

You did have some riders from 2001 through 2003 I think as a result of the move to deregulation.

True, but these are still SET the same way, i.e. still regulated. Costs went up b/c Alberta underinvested in infrastructure for about 10 years (kind of a large part of the Klein revolution in many areas). Nonetheless, these charges are still 100% regulated.

Natural gas costs (input into electricity generation) are up by about double or more since '99. Prices would also be well up under regulation, not to mention the fact that we have built about 4000 MW of new generation. This would have added to the cost basis under regulation by about 50%.

Its not secret that natural gas has risen consideralby....Late 2001 we were buying gas at around $2.50 per GJ, with a break even cost of about $25.00/MWH. Now, we are buying natural gas at about $5.60/GJ, with a break even cost of about $65.00 /MWH is simply cycle, or about $50.00 MWH in combined cycle. One thing about generation using natural gas is that some of this generation was built as an alternative to using simple boilers for inhouse steam loads. Most industries require steam, they either get it with fired boilers, OR they use a gas turbine coupled to a generator. The natural gas that would have been used in the boiler is now used in the gas turbine, which also gives you power, which also gives you "free" steam via waste heat boiler......so this in effect kindof skews the pricing paid by industry. Yes it costs x amount of dollars to make the power, but on the other hand, they are now a steam host and a reliable source of power to thier own facility.

Any company with decent forecasters could have very easily hedged blocks of gas to lower thier expenses, some did, some didnt.

Why are we, as consumers, made to foot the entire cost of the north/south transmission line upgrade, when the companies who will make huge profits from it, do not have to pay anything?? nepotism at its finest

[Incinerator]

Originally posted by Red+Feb 11 2005, 03:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Red @ Feb 11 2005, 03:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Incinerator@Feb 10 2005, 06:59 PM
I don't know what all those stupid numbers means, all I know is that my actual electricity usage was $13 this month and my bill came out to $44.61 after all the fees they tacked on there :mad2:

$44.61? Are you Amish?

I am lucky to get a bill less than $150 and that's year round. [/b][/quote]
I live in a 2 bdrm condo suite and I'm rarely home. :P

No need to be jealous, my condo fees more than make up for it, although it does cover water & heat.