The US forsakes Central Europe...once again

[Flame Of Liberty]

The United States has all-but abandoned plans to house anti-missile bases in Poland and the Czech republic, according to a senior White House lobbyist.

Riki Ellison, the chairman of the 10,000 member-strong Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance, said in Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza on Thursday (26 August) that the US has changed its mind to avoid a rift with Russia and is now looking at Israel, Turkey, the Balkans or ship-borne facilities instead.

http://euobserver.com/9/28587

Absolutely disgusting IMO and my biggest beef with Mr. Nice to date.

Avoid a rift with Russia? Laughable.

Backing away from thugs like Putin and Medvedev will never work and Mr. Nice is playing with fire here. Russia is increasing it's presence and influence (recent gas crisis, Russian spies being deported on daily basis, etc.) in Europe (NATO countries) and when NATO needs to show a strong stance what does he do? He buries his head in the sand.

Burying your head and "trying to work out" differences with autocrats who have no interest to play fair (Russia, Iran, China, ...) is now the official US foreign policy.

Shame.

[Daradon]

I dunno, I always thought expanding the bases into Central Europe was pushing the problem closer to the brink far more than it was helping to solve it.

It's a very VERY delicate issue and I don't mind slowing it down a bit.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I dunno, I always thought expanding the bases into Central Europe was pushing the problem closer to the brink far more than it was helping to solve it.

It's a very VERY delicate issue and I don't mind slowing it down a bit.

How is that pushing it? Both countries are in NATO. NATO builds military bases on its soil.

When Russia moves bases from Moscow to St.Petersburgh are they pushing it because now they are closer to Scandinavia?

[Ozy_Flame]

Missile defense in Poland and Central Europe is a Bush-era by-product that, thankfully, hasn't been followed through. Russia is not the withdrawn, bankrupt state it was 20 years ago after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and given that they will become one of the world's largest energy producers (and already are, and already do have the ability to starve Europe of oil and gas), why would the US want to provoke them?

Russia is VERY sensitive to military issues, and as such, a policy of waiting isn't necessarily a bad thing. And things haven't gotten bad enough with Iran (which was stated is the point of the missile defense systems) to warrant actually placing them.

I see this as a good move. A strong American dollar and a recovering economy is far more of a buffer against Russia than missiles are.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

How is that pushing it? Both countries are in NATO. NATO builds military bases on its soil.

When Russia moves bases from Moscow to St.Petersburgh are they pushing it because now they are closer to Scandinavia?

Well, the same way I guess the US thought the Russians were pushing it when they wanted to put missiles on Cuban soil.

For a technology that is supposed to make the world safer, it certainly seems to be increasing the possibility for a missile attack... Or a conflagration of some kind.

Russia is understandably scared about being behind in the arms race again. About being able to be targeted, but not being able to target others itself.

Now, not saying I have any love for Russia, especially some of their new directions, but the whole Bush idea of missile defense seems to make things more risky in my eyes.

MAD almost makes things the safest unfortunately. When you have one side so far ahead of the other, the consequences for attacks go down, not up, for the little guy in a lot of ways.

[SebC]

I don't see what the problem with missile defence is. Russia could easily overwhelm the system with big numbers of nukes. As long as Russian nukes > US anti-nukes > rogue country nukes, you still have MAD for the countries that have been proven to follow it's doctrine, and defense against the countries who have not. IMO, it's the best case.

[FlamesAddiction]

Why doesn't the Czech Republic and Poland just do it themselves then if they are concerned? I'm pretty sure they are free to purchase and assemble their own missile defense programs if the U.S. doesn't feel they are strategically as important any more.

[Daradon]

There are no countries that have been proven to not follow MAD's (or similar) doctrines.

I do believe a lot of this 'rogue state' talk is alarmist at best and fearmongering at worst. Yes some of these states have suicide bombers in the peasentry. But, the elite isn't going to take the same chance with their lives. The suicide bombers are being used, the elite doesn't follow the philosophies it sells them.