How would our Province look if...........

[albertGQ]

1. Ted Morton won the PC leadership race?
2. Jim Dinning won the PC leadership race?

I try to follow politics a little, but I'm not that knowledgable like other posters on here, so what do you guys the shape of our province would be currently?

[Azure]

I don't think either of them would have screwed with the royalty structure.

• We'd probably still be operating a surplus right now.
• Less people would be unemployed.
• We would still be near the top of places in the world that generate investment by big oil.
• While the economy would have slowed down a bit, it would have also picked up a lot faster.
• We wouldn't be known as a province with an incompetent fool in charge.
• We wouldn't be known as a province that has a leader nobody actually wanted.

[Bertuzzied]

Dinning is an idiot for not switching over to the Liberals. He would be our premier right now.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't think either of them would have screwed with the royalty structure.

• We'd probably still be operating a surplus right now.
• Less people would be unemployed.
• We would still be near the top of places in the world that generate investment by big oil.
• While the economy would have slowed down a bit, it would have also picked up a lot faster.
• We wouldn't be known as a province with an incompetent fool in charge.
• We wouldn't be known as a province that has a leader nobody actually wanted.

Wow that's quite the crystal ball!!!

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

1. Ted Morton won the PC leadership race?
2. Jim Dinning won the PC leadership race?

I try to follow politics a little, but I'm not that knowledgable like other posters on here, so what do you guys the shape of our province would be currently?

Stelmach was the third alternative.

Morton and Dinning were strong but not strong enough to defeat each other.

So Stelmach was the compromise guy that both sides felt they could pull the strings on if they couldn't win outright by themselves.

Stelmach has been pretty much as advertised from the get-go, weak and ineffectual.

Cowperson

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Dinning is an idiot for not switching over to the Liberals. He would be our premier right now.

No he wouldnt.

The Pierre Elliot Trudeau Liberals have no hope in this province. There only hope is to rebrand as something like the Alberta party and push the city agenda. Make it so that every city resident in the Calgary and Edmonton metro areas can see the complete BS electoral map that exists.

Its likely that they would need to win the popular vote but lose the electoral map vote before anything in Alberta changes. If you had money and the desire, you might be able to take it to the Supreme court to fight a discriminiation lawsuit.

[mykalberta]

There wasnt a single candidate that ran for the PC party that was worth electing - Dinning, Morton, or Eddy.

Eddy won because of his rural connections because of the electoral map disconnect in this province. Either of the other two would have been better for the province, but nothing great.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

No he wouldnt.

I think if he made a play for Liberal leadership and won it before the last election, we'd be looking at a minority PC government, or a minority Liberal one. Stelmach was already talking royalty hikes, and people wanted an alternative. Taft, Mason and Hinman were also toxic picks, so people went with the devil they knew instead of the devil they didn't.

Dinning would have swept most Calgary and Edmonton. Whether that's enough for a mandate is questionable as you pointed out the rural riding imbalance.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I think if he made a play for Liberal leadership and won it before the last election, we'd be looking at a minority PC government, or a minority Liberal one. Stelmach was already talking royalty hikes, and people wanted an alternative. Taft, Mason and Hinman were also toxic picks, so people went with the devil they knew instead of the devil they didn't.

Dinning would have swept most Calgary and Edmonton. Whether that's enough for a mandate is questionable as you pointed out the rural riding imbalance.

Dinning was widely distrusted outside of Calgary. The mood in Edmonton at the time was IIRC "anyone but Dinning"

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Dinning was widely distrusted outside of Calgary. The mood in Edmonton at the time was IIRC "anyone but Dinning"

Yep, but as a Liberal, he would probably still win many Edmonton ridings. Or, those ridings would go NDP. Much of Edmonton is very center-left and would not swing PC anyway. Either way, he would probably lead to a minority government of some sort, and as a result, Stelmach would likely have failed his leadership review.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Dinning is an idiot for not switching over to the Liberals. He would be our premier right now.

No he wouldn't.

The Liberal party will never govern in Alberta again. Not under that banner. Rebuild/rebrand a centrist party under Dinning and you have a shot, but not as the Liberal Party of Alberta.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Dinning is an idiot for not switching over to the Liberals. He would be our premier right now.

Jim Dinning does not want to be in politics at this time. And you don't just switch parties so you can be in power. As stated above, the Liberals need to rebrand and shift a little to the right economically. A re-branded socially liberal, economically conservative party with the proper leadership could do quite well in this province.

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Dinning was widely distrusted outside of Calgary. The mood in Edmonton at the time was IIRC "anyone but Dinning"

But that had much more to do with an "anything but Calgary" mentality than it did with Jim Dinning himself.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Jim Dinning does not want to be in politics at this time. And you don't just switch parties so you can be in power. As stated above, the Liberals need to rebrand and shift a little to the right economically. A re-branded socially liberal, economically conservative party with the proper leadership could do quite well in this province.


But that had much more to do with an "anything but Calgary" mentality than it did with Jim Dinning himself.

I meant right after he lost to Farmer Ed for the PC leadership.
Switching party worked well for Klein. I've always PC for provincial but if Dinning was the leader of the liberals in the last election i would have voted liberal. Instead i just didn't vote.

[Prototype]

Like a rectangle with a bite taken out of the bottom left corner.

(I've learned that arguing politics, much like religion, is a lost cause)

[nieuwy-89]

The guy wins the largest majority in Alberta history and still gets no respect in Calgary. Wake up and smell the coffee guys. Ed Stelmach is our premier and he's not going away any time soon! During the leadership, Stelmach campaigned on going back to the basics. Doing some good planning, making decisions, and then implementing. That is what he has done and is continuing to do. Not the reactive politics we see mostly everywhere else in the world including Ottawa. Stelmach is not flashy, but he gets the job done.

To answer the OP:

Morton - has been a much better Minister than most people expected. Took a very complicated but low profile position in Sustainable Development, and oversaw completion of the Land Use Framework. However, had he become leader, it would have created a huge opening for the Liberals to use scare tactics and position themselves as the only centrist party. I doubt the conservatives would have the majority that they have today.

Dinning - the only difference would be no change to the royalties. Would it matter in this economy? Perhaps. Would the province be better off in the long term? Not a chance. At the end of the day most small-c conservatives decided they simply couldn't trust Dinning and his big-business connections. I think most of us still stand by that decision.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

The guy wins the largest majority in Alberta history and still gets no respect in Calgary. Wake up and smell the coffee guys. Ed Stelmach is our premier and he's not going away any time soon! During the leadership, Stelmach campaigned on going back to the basics. Doing some good planning, making decisions, and then implementing. That is what he has done and is continuing to do. Not the reactive politics we see mostly everywhere else in the world including Ottawa. Stelmach is not flashy, but he gets the job done.

Under his watch, this is what they have accomplished.

Pitted a majority of Albertans against the oil and gas industry.

Pitted Edmonton against Calgary.

He has ticked off landowners (including farmers) several times over. Think bill 19 or 36. Take your pick.

He has completely destroyed what started as a good bill (44), and made one of his better minsters (Blackett) look like an idiot. His own party tried to put forth a repeal at their AGM.

They have imposed pricing minimums on bar owners.

They have imposed regulation on who can and cannot sell tobacco products.

They have put caps on the number and locations of VLTs.

They have centralized the health boards, yet another change that was not thought out and is ticking the entire proffesion off.

They have introduced an stupid carbon capture and sequestration plan. Which my own (PC) MLA told me was nothing more than a public relations ploy and would do nothing for the environment.

This does not even begin to touch on the umpteen changes to the NRF that has added fuel to the already unstable investment climate here. In case you didn't hear we are dead last as far as confidence with the investors.

And tomorrow Stelmach and Evans will be announcing we are even furhter in debt than they first thought.... go figure.

I could go on, but it's late and I think you get the idea.

[Dion]

Time to vote Liberal in the next election.

[Clarkey]

The thing I'm most pissed about is that mental midget making booze more expensive.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No he wouldn't.

The Liberal party will never govern in Alberta again. Not under that banner. Rebuild/rebrand a centrist party under Dinning and you have a shot, but not as the Liberal Party of Alberta.

Alberta politics is a little weird. Generally, it's a one-party system with a weak opposition, but there can be huge shifts in the balance of power. And I think most people understand that the Alberta Liberals in 2009 have nothing to do with the Federal Liberals in 1980.

My point is this: I don't think you're wrong, exactly. I personally do favour a re-branding and a new centrist party. If Dinning headed it up, I might even join. But the Conservative hold on the reins of power isn't as safe as you might think. Consider that in 1967 the Conservatives held only six seats in the legislature. Six--to the Social Credit party's 55.

In 1971 the Conservatives were in power with a 49-25 majority, and they've been in power since. The dominant party in Alberta doesn't change very often; but when it does, it does it in a hurry.

There are two things that should worry conservatives. One is Stelmach. The other is vote-splitting, though that's a related issue, with the Wild Rose Alliance. However, until the Liberals have a different leader it's kind of a moot point.

[Thunderball]

Another thing that should worry the PCs... the Alberta Oilpatch.

They essentially told the richest group of people in Alberta to kiss their ass and exacerbated a bad situation. While SEPAC and CAPP are pretty impotent, there's a reasonable chance they pull their funding and put it into another party (Liberals or WRA), tweak their platforms and give the PCs a real fight.