Just land those planes where you want- I'm having a nap.

[ken0042]

Washington (CNN) -- The air traffic controller suspended for failing to respond to two planes heading into Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport has told investigators that he had fallen asleep, according to the National Transportation Safety Board.

The controller, a 20-year veteran, "indicated that he had fallen asleep for a period of time while on duty," according to a statement released Thursday by the safety board. "He had been working his fourth consecutive overnight shift (10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.)."

[Caged Great]

The question I have to ask is who the hell thought it would be a good idea to have only one person on duty there overnight. That's the real problem. What happens if the guy had a heart attack instead of a nap and there was a crash because of it? All those people would die because they are too cheap to pay for a second person.

It's a remote possibility, granted, but still do you really want to screw with that?

[Bigtime]

There won't be a crash because the tower controller fell asleep, any aircraft could always divert to their alternate or follow uncontrolled field procedures to put the plane down. They still did have the aid of the terminal controller to ensure safe spacing from any other aircraft in the area (arrival controllers vector them onto final approach and then hand them over to tower controllers, who simply give landing clearance).

[puckluck]

If that c-train driver got fired for doing a cross word puzzle while driving I think this guy should be fired too.

[Bigtime]

Perhaps if both the pilots fell asleep they should be fired, people keep forgetting that there are 2 highly trained pilots up front that are more than capable of making a decision to safely put the aircraft on the ground (without a controller if need be).

The US ATC system is under severe strain, this issue will no doubt highlight just how bad the situation has become.

[MelBridgeman]

So many questions here. Why did the guy fall asleep? I read he was on his fourth straight shift of 10pm - 6 am and to have just one person on as pointed out above is just stupid for obv reasons. But again even though the landing would be a little more risky...Planes can land just fine without AC. The risk was very small.

[Bigtime]

I think even here in YYC we have 2 people up in the tower overnight, but then again we may actually get more overnight traffic than DCA.

[4X4]

I don't see how him being on his "fourth straight" overnight shift is relevant. It's called shift work. Don't these guys do five straight, like every three weeks? Guys working graveyard at Macs or at a steel plant don't fall asleep. F'n air traffic controller falling asleep? Fire his ass.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I don't see how him being on his "fourth straight" overnight shift is relevant. It's called shift work. Don't these guys do five straight, like every three weeks? Guys working graveyard at Macs or at a steel plant don't fall asleep. F'n air traffic controller falling asleep? Fire his ass.

Exactly. An 8 hour night shift is gravy. If that's your job then it's your responsibility to sleep in the day.

Freakin doctors do 24 hour shifts with no sleep 4-5 times a week when training.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The question I have to ask is who the hell thought it would be a good idea to have only one person on duty there overnight. That's the real problem. What happens if the guy had a heart attack instead of a nap and there was a crash because of it? All those people would die because they are too cheap to pay for a second person.

It's a remote possibility, granted, but still do you really want to screw with that?

I can guarantee this guy wasn't anywhere near the only person on duty that night.
Ronald Regan isn't exactly a small airport, there would be a lot of guys on duty, each with their own responsibilties.

Also if the american ATC system is like Canada's the controllers actually don't sit at their screens for all that long at a time, it's something like half hour on, half hour off, but I can't remember exactly (my sister works for Nav Canada, so that's where I'm getting the info), also that's for radar, so maybe the tower is different, but I wouldn't think it's that different. So if someone were to have a heart attack, rest assured, there would be plenty of people on hand to take over.

NM, I stand corrected, I didn't realize Ronald Regan wasn't that big of an airport. Seems like this actually was the only guy on at the time.

My Bad.

[Ryan Coke]

Any person that works a night shift should do what they can from a rest standpoint, but the reality is not that black and white. You are dealing with a very natural and obvious physiological problem, where you have to fight the bodies natural need for sleep at certain times (circadian rhythm).

People who work nights are not as sharp, make more mistakes, and aren't as efficient. You try to manage that and mitigate it as much as possible, but it is a reality. Not to mention that people still must deal with the regular worlds hours (construction and noise during the day, kids going to school, all that other 'life' stuff). Never mind that sometimes people don't sleep well at night, and it is a much greater problem when working back side of the clock and trying to get proper sleep during the daytime.

So, just fire the dude who fell asleep in the middle of the night, huh? It was an extremely natural physiological response at that time of night, not necessarily negligent. What if he has to run to the bathroom, should he be fired for that too?

The risks here, as others have mentioned, really weren't that great---'Landing Blind!!'--typical media. But having 2 people on through the night makes sense in any safety related job at all times, especially during the red eye hours.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Freakin doctors do 24 hour shifts with no sleep 4-5 times a week when training.

This is starting to change, finally. It is absolutely ridiculous, and kills way too many people every year. The reason it hasn't changed sooner is that screwing up some medication, or making a mistake in the OR doesn't make get caught on camera and make the news. It is quiet tragedy. When a plane goes down it is heavily scrutinized.

It is good to see the medical profession slowly catching up to aviation.

[Nage Waza]

If alcoholism is considered a disease, than what do we call falling asleep? Everyone needs to sleep, and no matter how aware, awake or even surrounded by wide awake people, you can still suddenly fall asleep. I don't know if there is a perfect solution to fight off drowsiness. This is part of being human.

IMO this is not the flight controller's issue, unless he was not preparing adequately for his shift.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

If alcoholism is considered a disease, than what do we call falling asleep? Everyone needs to sleep, and no matter how aware, awake or even surrounded by wide awake people, you can still suddenly fall asleep. I don't know if there is a perfect solution to fight off drowsiness. This is part of being human.

IMO this is not the flight controller's issue, unless he was not preparing adequately for his shift.

Is this a joke? Maybe it's just me, but I have never ever fell asleep on the job or fell asleep when I had a big responsibility to do.

It's a 10pm-6am shift for crying out loud. People who work at 7/11 have longer night shifts than that. How on earth do you fall asleep on the job unless you never got enough sleep in the day? He knew the shift he had and never got enough sleep obviously. Totally his fault and I can't believe this is even a discussion.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Is this a joke? Maybe it's just me, but I have never ever fell asleep on the job or fell asleep when I had a big responsibility to do.

It's a 10pm-6am shift for crying out loud. People who work at 7/11 have longer night shifts than that. How on earth do you fall asleep on the job unless you never got enough sleep in the day? He knew the shift he had and never got enough sleep obviously. Totally his fault and I can't believe this is even a discussion.

Is what a joke? Is there a cure for falling asleep? I clearly stated that if he did not prepare for his shift, than it is clearly his fault. Otherwise, what can you do? If he has a medical condition that has to be dealt with. Trust me, there are assorted reasons people fall asleep for medical reasons.
Many industries treat fatigue in a serious manner, in particular when it is a safety sensitive position. This situation will bring out the details associated with the air traffic controllers.

[Dynamic]

I work 10 straight overnight shifts out of a 6 week period and usually the worst ones are the first couple when I'm getting used to the new shift. By your 4th shift you should be in far better shape than the first couple shifts unless you are not getting your rest.

I know many people make plans throughout the day and just try to get sleep in short bursts throughout the day and its just dangerous. I not sure what this guys deal is but night shifts are just nasty sometimes.

[Ryan Coke]

Puckluck, tell us about your years of experience working jobs that challenge your circadian rhythm, and how you overcome them.

The many research teams would love your insight.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Is what a joke? Is there a cure for falling asleep? I clearly stated that if he did not prepare for his shift, than it is clearly his fault. Otherwise, what can you do? If he has a medical condition that has to be dealt with. Trust me, there are assorted reasons people fall asleep for medical reasons.
Many industries treat fatigue in a serious manner, in particular when it is a safety sensitive position. This situation will bring out the details associated with the air traffic controllers.

The guy had 20 years experience. If he had a medical situation that made him fall asleep do you really think he would be working a night shift?

The guy fell asleep because he was tired. It's clear as day and night. He was a dumb ass, and should be fired.

Looks like the problems are related to negligence instead of a sleeping disorder. If you have problems sleeping you should find another job.

"That fatigue has contributed to controller errors," Rosenker wrote.

The incidents cited by the NTSB were:

-- A March 23, 2006, incident in which a Chicago air traffic controller cleared a plane to take off from a runway on which, 15 seconds earlier, he had cleared another aircraft to cross. The pilot of the departing plane stopped when he saw the other craft in the taxiway intersection. The controller told investigators he had slept only four hours during a nine-hour break between shifts.

-- An August 19, 2004, incident in which a Los Angeles controller cleared one passenger jet to take off and another to land on a runway at the same time. The pilot in the landing aircraft noticed the other on the runway and pulled his plane up 12 seconds before they would have collided. The controller said he had slept five or 6 hours before coming to work.

-- A September 25, 2001, incident in which a Denver air traffic controller approved a request from a cargo plane pilot to take off from a runway that had been closed for construction. The aircraft came within 32 feet of hitting lights that had been installed in the construction zone. The controller said he'd slept only two hours between work days.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Puckluck, tell us about your years of experience working jobs that challenge your circadian rhythm, and how you overcome them.

The many research teams would love your insight.

I've worked 14 hour days 7 days a week and have never fell asleep on the job. One way I overcame working long hours without sleeping is having responsibilities and not falling asleep. Pretty simple really. I hope this can be useful in your study.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by puckluck

I've worked 14 hour days 7 days a week and have never fell asleep on the job. One way I overcame working long hours without sleeping is having responsibilities and not falling asleep. Pretty simple really. I hope this can be useful in your study.

What were your jobs/hours?

I'm not saying the ATC is at no wrong, but that is a tough job. I think any shift work (nurses, et al) is a tough job.