Downtown condo developement puts girl's inheritance in jeopardy - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

normtwofinger · 05-05-2009, 07:02 PM

Link.

Should Pointe of View be held responsible for debacle?

4X4 · 05-05-2009, 07:08 PM

That's a pretty pointed question. The answer, IMO is yes and no.

Whever the city authorizes road closures, the developer pays fees for it. Even a temporary closure for a big concrete pour or something like that costs thousands of dollars.
The question I'd like answered is: where does that money go? Especially for a long term closure that significantly affects businesses.

If the city is collecting money off Point of View for this closure, it should be proportionally giving tax breaks to the other land owners in the area. If it does, then no, the business shouldn't be further compensated.

05-05-2009, 07:10 PM

Crappy. I loved the garbage can lid meals. Awesome restaurant.

SebC · 05-05-2009, 07:19 PM

It's not Pointe of Views fault if the city does not tell them what they can and cannot do. A six year old who's father died makes for a better story but the real issue here is with poor civic leadership: it woudln't be a better situation if the restaurant was owned by an adult.

Quote:

Booker's Barbecue and Crab Shack relies on 3 Street S.E. to get its customers to the establishment.

But the road has been closed for months, while a new condo is being built, and is keeping customers away.

[...]

CTV Calgary also tried to contact the area's alderman, Druh Farrell, but she would not speak about the issue.

Probably too busy closing Memorial to open up 3rd street. Wonder how busy Booker's will be now. If not, I might be up for a visit.

Jedi Ninja · 05-05-2009, 07:29 PM

I was looking at their menu online the other day, and I don't think they have the garbage can lids any more. Also, in addition to their road closure woes, like many other casual restaurants, I think they've priced themselves out of the market now that the economy has turned.

MENU (Entres are $24-$34 and the crab night is $38 now.)

http://www.bookersbbq.com/CMS/uploads/172.pdf

BlackArcher101 · 05-05-2009, 07:35 PM

How long has the road actually been closed? They say a couple months, but then say the restaurant has lost over $300K since september.

Daradon · 05-05-2009, 07:38 PM

Exactly, where is the money going?

Probably for the 20 officers and HAWKS helicopter used to make sure the pot march (which has ALWAYS been peaceful) didn't get out of hand.

This city is so backwards right now it's frightening.

(I think I read that area business do get a share, but it's nowhere near what they normally would bring in. They have to think of a way to fairly compensate small business owners.)

P.S. Pointe of View is the crappiest developer ever. Never EVER buy from them. Unless you wanna wake up one day and find out they decided to make the room besides yours the boiler room. True story! Don't those things go in the basement?

krazycanuck · 05-05-2009, 07:39 PM

When I lived in Calgary I'd go there quite often. Not the cheapest, but some seriously good food and a pretty good place to hang out during stampede as well.

4X4 · 05-05-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daradon

(I think I read that area business do get a share, but it's nowhere near what they normally would bring in. They have to think of a way to fairly compensate small business owners.)

Well, there's the other side of the coin that suggests that business owners sucking it up for a time benefit greatly on the other end. Theoretically this development would have been a boon for this restaurant. If the city were to compensate lost business during redevelopment, costs for development would shoot up and developers wouldn't bother with the area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daradon

P.S. Pointe of View is the crappiest developer ever. Never EVER buy from them. Unless you wanna wake up one day and find out they decided to make the room besides yours the boiler room. True story! Don't those things go in the basement?

I wont argue about POV's level of quality. They fill a niche. There'll always be room in the market for companies like POV. Hate to be a dick, but if you didn't want to wake up next to a mechanical room, you (or whoever this happened to) should have looked at the plans before buying. Mechanical rooms aren't arbitrarily re-located during construction.
I'd be more pissed at the realtor/salesperson for not bringing it up.
And of course, at the end of the day, caveat emptor.

normtwofinger · 05-05-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

How long has the road actually been closed? They say a couple months, but then say the restaurant has lost over $300K since september.

IIRC access from Riverfront Ave to 3rd ST has been closed since september. Since september the only way to get on 3rd ST is by the 4th Ave Flyover. That makes it pretty difficult to access Bookers.

Daradon · 05-05-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

Well, there's the other side of the coin that suggests that business owners sucking it up for a time benefit greatly on the other end. Theoretically this development would have been a boon for this restaurant. If the city were to compensate lost business during redevelopment, costs for development would shoot up and developers wouldn't bother with the area.

I wont argue about POV's level of quality. They fill a niche. There'll always be room in the market for companies like POV. Hate to be a dick, but if you didn't want to wake up next to a mechanical room, you (or whoever this happened to) should have looked at the plans before buying. Mechanical rooms aren't arbitrarily re-located during construction.
I'd be more pissed at the realtor/salesperson for not bringing it up.
And of course, at the end of the day, caveat emptor.

Point 1: Well I can't argue with that, and that's why I'd like to know exactly how much money was taken in by the city, and exactly where it all went. My guess though, is that the actual businesses see very little of it, that's it's used as tax money (like everything else in this city right now). Saying that, I admit I could be wrong and that's why I'd like to see specifics.

Point 2: I can't entirely disagree with that either, (no it wasn't me) but I still think they are pretty sleazy the way they deal with customers and clients. I've heard many other stories like that, it just seems to be one of those companies that has absolutely zero corporate responsibility, so I stand by my warning against them.

Yeah, at the end of the day it is buyer beware, but whatever happened to disclosure and responsibility? I always took that very seriously as a salesperson and I will point my finger at people and companies that don't.

The best relationship is one where you bring customers back and have positive word of mouth. Trying to cheap someone out of money can cost you bigger down the road, and vice versa, being responsible and sacrificing a little profit or commission up front, or just providing a quality product, can return much much more back to you in the long run.

Don't ever ever buy from Pointe of View.

4X4 · 05-05-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daradon

but I still think they are pretty sleazy the way they deal with customers and clients. I've heard many other stories like that, it just seems to be one of those companies that has absolutely zero corporate responsibility, so I stand by my warning against them.

Yeah, at the end of the day it is buyer beware, but whatever happened to disclosure and responsibility? I always took that very seriously as a salesperson and I will point my finger at people and companies that don't.

The best relationship is one where you bring customers back and have positive word of mouth. Trying to cheap someone out of money can cost you bigger down the road, and vice versa, being responsible and sacrificing a little profit or commission up front, or just providing a quality product, can return much much more back to you in the long run.

Don't ever ever buy from Pointe of View.

Agreed on all of this. I've not personally dealt with POV, but I've heard all the same stuff as you. And not just from buyers. A good friend got the royal screw-around from them after he did concrete work for them. He did the work, and then they took months and months and months to pay. All kinds of stories and "I'll transfer you to this person" "he's not in the office right now" "I'll look into it and call you back"... A cheque that was supposed to come in in November and fund christmas for his young family finally came in in march.

So yeah, I certainly won't disagree with you on any of this.

Ozy_Flame · 05-05-2009, 08:28 PM

As much as I like Bookers, there's always going to be growing pains when you're developing in dense downtown areas.

I wonder how bad Budget was hemorrhaging when 6th ave was shut down last year?

SeeGeeWhy · 05-05-2009, 08:34 PM

I wonder how fines are worked out for lane closures. It seems like it is basically a very cheap way for these developers to buy storage space on their site, which is a total mismanagement of the road by the city if you ask me.

Bookers should relocate anyways, great restaurant and deserves to be in a better location to really shine. I hope they don't shut down for good as its a great concept, and a lot of fun during stampede and otherwise.

Phaneuf3 · 05-05-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Bookers should relocate anyways

seconded.
I've always been curious to go in and try it but haven't cause I don't like the location.

TheyCallMeBruce · 05-05-2009, 09:16 PM

Is this Midtown gateway?

Daradon · 05-05-2009, 09:18 PM

I wonder if Bookers could get money from the city or the developer to relocate?

I think it's important for the city to help out small businesses. They're the color of the city. Otherwise you end up with 147 Wal-Marts and 68 Tony Romas.

Not that there should be free help, but if it's a situation like this, where it's not the establishments fault...

4X4 · 05-05-2009, 09:27 PM

I dunno. It doesn't really seem like the right location to be charging $20-$40 entrees.

Regulator75 · 05-05-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

Is this Midtown gateway?

No, Riverfront PointE

ken0042 · 05-05-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

seconded.
I've always been curious to go in and try it but haven't cause I don't like the location.

I've also only been there a couple of times due to their location.

The other question is what they may have done to mitigate their losses? Have they started any kind of marketing plan?

This current construction will bring more customers to within walking distance of the restaurant; they should be welcoming this.