Update on Transit Cop - 13 Hours in jail for not having Canadian ID

[Hack&Lube]

So as an update to this thread: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=70094

I recieved the full story this morning. It had nothing to do with the C-Train or anything. As I'm told, this woman was crossing the street to come into work when one of the calgary transit vans was heading down the street and suddenly stopped at the intersection. The guy came out and started harrassing her and claimed she was jaywalking and demanded ID. This woman is african american and only just started working here and doesn't have any Canadian ID, just the work permit but according to her side of the story, this guy was acting very biggoted and just gave her a bad feeling about how he was talking to her. He demanded a Canadian ID and when she said that she had none, she said that she would call upstairs to work to get some more but then this guy suddenly decided to write her up for "obstruction of justice" for not providing ID, was speaking down to her, treating her like dirt, and put her in his van and hauled her down to lock-up.

She was in tears this morning. She's university educated, has worked for big law firms in the U.S. in the UK, etc. has never been in jail - but they put her in jail for 13 hours with drug addicts and other shady characters. Even in places she's been like Chicago and the Deep South, she's never experienced something like this. I've never been in jail but she said the conditions were horrible, that people could just look into the women's washroom etc. And in the end, the thing the transit cop claimed he stopped her for - jaywalking - she never got a ticket for. Instead, the transit cop claimed several other things and got her booked on obstruction of justice when I know it's not in her character (sounds like Critical Mass anyone?).

I've only heard one side of the story but from the emotions I could see in her eyes - I can see what she's feeling earnestly. She said that she couldn't get the hurt and stench and feeling of disgust off her about how this transit cop treated her. She really felt he was being a biggot and racist. I'm trusly digusted at this city. I've experienced racism before and I could see that's what she's feeling. Even in the U.S., she's never been treated that way and her view of Calgary and Canada in general is terrible right now. Imagine being stopped for jaywalking, being treated like crap unfairly, and then thrown in a filthy jail for 13 hours by a transit cop?

She eventually got out of jail by contacting her embassy and congressman (whom I'm told were quite irate at her treatment). I wonder what the legal recourse would be for other visitors, tourists, or people on temporary work VISAs in Canada would be if something this ridiculous happened to them. I can't express how pissed off I am when I heard this story. It's hard to show it in a post but I could see from how she was almost crying and how she was saying it, how badly she was treated and how disgusted she is with this city and country right now after only being here for a month and I don't blame her...and I thought the racist bars/clubs in this town were bad enough...or the drunk construction workers who kept telling me how this country would be better off if only "Canadians" (ie: white Canadians and not visible minorities) got the good jobs. I don't know the other side of the story, but from how said said it, I had a good feeling of what she meant or felt. It might not be racism, but it's certainly a jerk transit cop power tripping on not being a real cop or something. That kind of treatment and punishment is totally unfair and uncalled for unless the person is really being uncooperative or threatening and I don't think she was in this case.

[Bagor]

Verrrrrrrrrrryyy strange story.

Why would a transit cop be involved in a non-transit matter?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Verrrrrrrrrrryyy strange story.

Why would a transit cop be involved in a non-transit matter?

I think it was along 7th avenue where the transit vans go up and down the C-Train tracks. She just says the guy came out and started harassing her about jaywalking and eventually she ended up booked for obstructing justice for not providing ID and never even recieved a ticket for jaywalking. I know the story sounds strange, but this woman is pretty tough person but she had tears in her eyes. I'm not doubting her story.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Verrrrrrrrrrryyy strange story.

Why would a transit cop be involved in a non-transit matter?

No kidding.

Does she have the officers name or badge number or something?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

No kidding.

Does she have the officers name or badge number or something?

She said when she asked for his name while she was talking on the phone, he suddenly gave her a lot more attitude and that's around when he arrested her.

[onetwo_threefour]

Working on the assumption that you have all the facts, that transit cop should definitely be turfed or severely reprimanded. However, it doesn't sound like an issue of 'profiling' as was suggested before.

On the other hand, I certainly don't think it's fair to characterize a whole city, province or copuntry based on one particular idiot. I'm sure there are lots of idiots in both Canada and the US that would pull racist crap (if that's what it was). If I had to guess, I'd guess that there's a few more of them in the U.S. than here, based on sheer numbers alone.

I can sympathize with one aspect of her situation very specifically. About a month after I moved here from Ontario, I got ticketed for jaywalking on 7th by a transit cop. I actually said to the cop, "Are you serious? Jaywalking is how you cross the street in Ontario."

It didn't work for me, but luckily he spelled my name wrong on the ticket so I never paid it.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

I'm sure there are lots of idiots in both Canada and the US that would pull racist crap like that. If I had to guess, I'd guess that there's a few more of them in the U.S. than here, based on sheer numbers alone.

Oh yeah, I tried to explain that to her, but if you've ever experience strange harassment like that, it really stings and taints you view of a whole place and people...even if you've live there your whole life and should know better. I don't like jumping on that "r-word" card either but just the way she said things is how I know that's what she felt.

[octothorp]

Thanks for posting an update on this. My impression after reading this is completely the opposite of what I assumed after reading your first post about it.

I've seen transit cops ticketing jaywalkers on 7th Ave, I don't think that part of it is that unusual. But the rest of the treatment is really awful; if she makes an effort to provide documentation as to her identity, that should be more than sufficient. That a transit cop would escalate this matter to the extent of having her put in jail is just shameful. Personally I'm not convinced that race was necessarily an issue here, (though it could have been), but even without the element of race it's bad enough.

[mykalberta]

So what, no ticket machines at the Banff Trail location

If she is a lawyer, she should sue Calgary Transit.

Probably more for the Confessions Thread, but Canada is no more or less racist than the US. I cant stand how people think we are more tolerant just because we never had blatant slavery.

To me racism could be a big part of this. There are cameras at alot of locations along 7th, hopefully one of the picked it up and she can use it in a suit against Calgary Transit.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Thanks for posting an update on this. My impression after reading this is completely the opposite of what I assumed after reading your first post about it.

I've seen transit cops ticketing jaywalkers on 7th Ave, I don't think that part of it is that unusual. But the rest of the treatment is really awful; if she makes an effort to provide documentation as to her identity, that should be more than sufficient. That a transit cop would escalate this matter to the extent of having her put in jail is just shameful. Personally I'm not convinced that race was necessarily an issue here, (though it could have been), but even without the element of race it's bad enough.

Yeah, like I said, I don't like playing the "R-Word" card either but that's honestly how she felt about it and she seemed earnestly emotionally distressed. It might not be specifically that in her case, but that's how she interpreted it. I'm told it was a younger guy. Could just be another one of those rookie transit cops (City Transit is pretty desperate for hiring) on a power-trip.

[rubecube]

She should be going to the media with this and seeing if she can round up any witnesses.

[TheDragon]

I'm pretty disgusted to hear this.

Has she been in contact with her lawyer yet? What about the media?

[Cowboy89]

I'm hearing a lot of stories about agressive ticketing transit cops and police out agressively targeting speeders by hiding in fishing holes in spades the last couple of months. I saw a cop hide in the entrance to my condo complex right at the beginning of a playground zone sign right at 830 sharp in a ghost car the other day. (Like come on give people at least 10 minutes leeway in case their clock is behind, and maybe don't be so covert)

I'm starting to think that the city is putting on the 'full court press' on their 'revenue problem' so that they can buy more Cecil hotels, 25 Million Dollar Pedestrian bridges and other various wastes of your money. If I ever get a ticket from one of these oppression schemes I'm going to choose the defence option that costs them the most money.

The police wonder why no one wants to give them tips about legitimate crimes. Chances are if many common law abiding people end up getting tickets for nitpicking type things they will stop viewing policemen as being on their side and be much less willing to help them out.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by TheDragon

I'm pretty disgusted to hear this.

Has she been in contact with her lawyer yet? What about the media?

I'm not going to say too much about this situation because of her employer and other things but she went to college in Atlanta and said she called some friends at CNN and her embassy and congressman (who was receptive...and named Jesse Jackson Jr.). I don't know what good that will do in Canada...but it might even be better than most could hope for if they had this sort of thing happen to them. If I was thrown in jail and called my Alderman or MLA or MP, they'd just laugh in my face...or they'd call the jail of whatever country I was in and the police there would be like: "Ablonczy who? Canada? hahahaa!"

[TheDragon]

Originally Posted by hack&lube

i'm not going to say too much about this situation because of her employer and other things but she went to college in atlanta and said she called some friends at cnn.

Ohhhooo snap!

This should be interesting.

[Bagor]

So why was she detained for 13 hours? Does it take that long to lay a charge?

I presume she has a fine/court date where she can see this cop again?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bagor

So why was she detained for 13 hours? Does it take that long to lay a charge?

I presume she has a fine/court date where she can see this cop again?

I'm not sure, I remember hearing that she saw a Justice of the Peace but I didn't press for details. I was just mad at that point. There will definetely be court in the future. My boss who used to work at CPS went down to try to see her or bail her out but it was unsuccessful for reasons I wasn't given.

A few things:

We have heard only one side as someone stated. I, for one, don't believe her story nor do I believe the suggestion that this was racially motivated.

Obstruction is the outright refusal to identify yourself or providing a fictitious name. One could not be charged with obstruction for providing some source of identification provided that id was indeed them. Legally, it's not possible. Thus there is much more to this story that she is not telling you.

Maybe she is upset because she is embarrassed by what happened. Who knows, it just simply doesn't add up.

The 'ticket' or bylaw offense notice can be applied to the criminal paperwork- one might not receive a physical ticket.

Ask her how she was released- what paperwork does she have. Does she have a court date? Or did her 'embassy' take care of it.

Jail is not a comfortable place. I am sure, if we went to jail, we would like to thing we would get a single cell with a private bath and room service. It's not gonna happen.

Someone up top mention seeing police running laser @ 830am and that, in his opinion, people need to be given some time to adjust. So many issues with that. Most importantly, how would you deal with other members of the public who call in complaints of speeders in p/g zones @ 830am? How do the police balance things out?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

A few things:

We have heard only one side as someone stated. I, for one, don't believe her story nor do I believe the suggestion that this was racially motivated.

Obstruction is the outright refusal to identify yourself or providing a fictitious name. One could not be charged with obstruction for providing some source of identification provided that id was indeed them. Legally, it's not possible. Thus there is much more to this story that she is not telling you.

Maybe she is upset because she is embarrassed by what happened. Who knows, it just simply doesn't add up.

The 'ticket' or bylaw offense notice can be applied to the criminal paperwork- one might not receive a physical ticket.

Ask her how she was released- what paperwork does she have. Does she have a court date? Or did her 'embassy' take care of it.

Jail is not a comfortable place. I am sure, if we went to jail, we would like to thing we would get a single cell with a private bath and room service. It's not gonna happen.

I'm usually a very skeptical person and rationally minded. I know there are major holes in the story and it all sounds circumspect. All I can offer is that from her earnest emotional response, I don't detect any guile or that she's trying to hide anything. I'm not going to press for more details unless told because it is obviously uncomfortable for them to talk about it.

In any case, law abiding and honest citizens getting stopped for jaywalking on your way to work only to end up in jail for 13 hours is crap and should not happen unless you really do something to deserve it. If she made a scene and was uncooperative, perhaps then it is justified...Then again, doing that in Canada can get you tasered to death.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Someone up top mention seeing police running laser @ 830am and that, in his opinion, people need to be given some time to adjust. So many issues with that. Most importantly, how would you deal with other members of the public who call in complaints of speeders in p/g zones @ 830am? How do the police balance things out?

I'm sure that's what it is. In the middle of a financial mess and lower tax revenues, the police and transit cops all of a sudden decided to get militant and enforce the law to the letter because out of no where they started to get a rediculous amount of complaints about nitpiky things like dangerous motorists speeding through at 40 KPH on Sunday morning at 8:30 sharp on a cold winter day. Call me cynical, but they're out fishing for cash.

When a drunk guy backed into my parked car in my condo complex a month ago we called the police and they arrested them. When they came back for our witness statements they were pleased because they issued him over $10,000 in tickets and it meant much less work for them that week. Gives me the impression that the marching orders are based in part by revenue generation. Now that money's tight I wouldn't be surprised of an up-tick of oppression.