Convert or die

[arsenal]

Argh!!!
I hate that sh*t. Your a bloody Christian, the whole point of being a christian is to treat everyone the same. I guess they missed that day of sunday school.

That is what p*sses me off about religion. Some people treat it like a big clique, and if you aren't part of that clique, then you are frowned upon. Grow up!

:mad2:

Ok, done ranting

[Agamemnon]

To be fair, while Christians are 'supposed to be nice to everyone', they're also supposed to convert... everyone. Seems obvious that helping these people is the best way to win converts, but sometimes missionaries are... a little narrow-minded

[Cheese]

LOLOL....beautiful aint it? Brings out the reality in organized religion! In the 1600s they would just kill you instead.

[peter12]

Your statements are completely unfair. Have you forgotten about the massive amount of Christian NGO's over there who are putting forward a huge humanitarian effort and at the same time trying to conceal their religion for the Muslim and Hindu victims of the tsunami. Some of the largest and most effective humanitarian organizations are Christian based. So don't go painting an entire group on the basis of a few ***holes in one village.

This story really shouldn't have gotten any priority press time.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by peter12@Jan 21 2005, 02:18 PM
Your statements are completely unfair. Have you forgotten about the massive amount of Christian NGO's over there who are putting forward a huge humanitarian effort and at the same time trying to conceal their religion for the Muslim and Hindu victims of the tsunami. Some of the largest and most effective humanitarian organizations are Christian based. So don't go painting an entire group on the basis of a few ***holes in one village.

This story really shouldn't have gotten any priority press time.

Are they unfair? It wasnt me that did the actions? I donated a chunk of cash to this issue as did a number of my friends that are also Atheists, Agnostics or free thinking individuals.
If religion is so open and accepting, so non-judgmental, then why are members recruiting innocent - and perfectly happy - bystanders? Why do they want to "convert" those to their beliefs?
How wonderful that these "faiths" have jumped on board and run to the area "without bible in hand"? What a load of BS! How are religions of any kind, after so many years of war and persecution, supposed to ease the process of living with others?
It got the press it deserved just as any other action this disgusting by any other person/group would have recieved...and it was painted with the correct brush.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I tend to keep an open mind and realize that not all Christian groups are like these ppl in this article. Not trying to make an issue out of this, but the article identified these christians as "nuns." I only know of one group in Christiandom that has nuns.

EDIT: upon reading my post again, it does seem like I'm trying to label a certain group with this behavior. I'm not. I was simply trying to point out that by the clues presented (the nuns), concerned people might want to track this organization down and give them a call.

[peter12]

Originally posted by GerryCheevers+Jan 21 2005, 01:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (GerryCheevers @ Jan 21 2005, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-peter12@Jan 21 2005, 02:18 PM
Your statements are completely unfair. Have you forgotten about the massive amount of Christian NGO's over there who are putting forward a huge humanitarian effort and at the same time trying to conceal their religion for the Muslim and Hindu victims of the tsunami. Some of the largest and most effective humanitarian organizations are Christian based. So don't go painting an entire group on the basis of a few ***holes in one village.

This story really shouldn't have gotten any priority press time.

Are they unfair? It wasnt me that did the actions? I donated a chunk of cash to this issue as did a number of my friends that are also Atheists, Agnostics or free thinking individuals.
If religion is so open and accepting, so non-judgmental, then why are members recruiting innocent - and perfectly happy - bystanders? Why do they want to "convert" those to their beliefs?
How wonderful that these "faiths" have jumped on board and run to the area "without bible in hand"? What a load of BS! How are religions of any kind, after so many years of war and persecution, supposed to ease the process of living with others?
It got the press it deserved just as any other action this disgusting by any other person/group would have recieved...and it was painted with the correct brush. [/b][/quote]
How are you implicating an entire group of people based on the actions of a tiny percentage? A massive amount of aid and goodwill is done by Christian organizations. Why not give them credit instead of attacking the entire establishment?

YOu call yourself a free thinking rational agnostic? You are simply bound to an idealogy instead of a religion.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by peter12+Jan 21 2005, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peter12 @ Jan 21 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Are they unfair? It wasnt me that did the actions? I donated a chunk of cash to this issue as did a number of my friends that are also Atheists, Agnostics or free thinking individuals.
If religion is so open and accepting, so non-judgmental, then why are members recruiting innocent - and perfectly happy - bystanders? Why do they want to "convert" those to their beliefs?
How wonderful that these "faiths" have jumped on board and run to the area "without bible in hand"? What a load of BS! How are religions of any kind, after so many years of war and persecution, supposed to ease the process of living with others?
It got the press it deserved just as any other action this disgusting by any other person/group would have recieved...and it was painted with the correct brush.

How are you implicating an entire group of people based on the actions of a tiny percentage? A massive amount of aid and goodwill is done by Christian organizations. Why not give them credit instead of attacking the entire establishment?

YOu call yourself a free thinking rational agnostic? You are simply bound to an idealogy instead of a religion. [/b][/quote]
I implicate the group that was present and refused AID for the people of that region because they would not convert to their "Christian" religion! I am also 100% positive that a good portion of that aid came directly from people like me who do not share their particular beliefs. I implicate them because that is who they are. I am not an Agnostic at all, I dont believe in Gods, Ghosts or Supernatural beings at all. I was brought up to be accepting and open, not to discriminate or judge. I am raising a family the same way, and I hope that my children's decisions will be educated and well-thought-out. Should they choose to join an organized religion I will support them, but I hope they can find a sect which preaches tolerance and acceptance, not discrimination.
Who says Religion isnt an Ideology? Organized religion? Are you only allowed to have rational thoughts if you are part of an organized religion? If anyone makes comments against organized religion of anykind why is it irrational? If this were Muslims or Jews or any other idealogue would anyone care? Or would they be outraged?

[Table 5]

^ Preach on, my brotha!

I don't think one event like this can paint an entire group, but can anyone really say they are that surprised to hear such a thing? This type of behaviour has been going on for centuries, and it's one of the many reasons i view missionairies with a very wary view (try saying that fast 3 times!).

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally posted by GerryCheevers+Jan 21 2005, 07:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (GerryCheevers @ Jan 21 2005, 07:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

How are you implicating an entire group of people based on the actions of a tiny percentage? A massive amount of aid and goodwill is done by Christian organizations. Why not give them credit instead of attacking the entire establishment?

YOu call yourself a free thinking rational agnostic? You are simply bound to an idealogy instead of a religion.

I implicate the group that was present and refused AID for the people of that region because they would not convert to their "Christian" religion! I am also 100% positive that a good portion of that aid came directly from people like me who do not share their particular beliefs. I implicate them because that is who they are. I am not an Agnostic at all, I dont believe in Gods, Ghosts or Supernatural beings at all. I was brought up to be accepting and open, not to discriminate or judge. I am raising a family the same way, and I hope that my children's decisions will be educated and well-thought-out. Should they choose to join an organized religion I will support them, but I hope they can find a sect which preaches tolerance and acceptance, not discrimination.
Who says Religion isnt an Ideology? Organized religion? Are you only allowed to have rational thoughts if you are part of an organized religion? If anyone makes comments against organized religion of anykind why is it irrational? If this were Muslims or Jews or any other idealogue would anyone care? Or would they be outraged? [/b][/quote]
Then, your previous statement is incorrect. By reading your post, and I quote " LOLOL....beautiful aint it? Brings out the reality in organized religion! In the 1600s they would just kill you instead." to me is incorrect. It implies that all organized religion promotes discrimination and intolerence. However, we can clearly see that's not the belief you subcribe to.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by GerryCheevers@Jan 21 2005, 07:50 PM
I implicate the group that was present and refused AID for the people of that region because they would not convert to their "Christian" religion! I am also 100% positive that a good portion of that aid came directly from people like me who do not share their particular beliefs. I implicate them because that is who they are. I am not an Agnostic at all, I dont believe in Gods, Ghosts or Supernatural beings at all. I was brought up to be accepting and open, not to discriminate or judge. I am raising a family the same way, and I hope that my children's decisions will be educated and well-thought-out. Should they choose to join an organized religion I will support them, but I hope they can find a sect which preaches tolerance and acceptance, not discrimination.
Who says Religion isnt an Ideology? Organized religion? Are you only allowed to have rational thoughts if you are part of an organized religion? If anyone makes comments against organized religion of anykind why is it irrational? If this were Muslims or Jews or any other idealogue would anyone care? Or would they be outraged?

Still, you're basically picking out this one example and using it to maintain that for some reason 'all' religious groups are worse at charitable distribution then 'all' secular groups. That's BS. Do a little investigation, and I'm sure you'll find PLENTY of fantastically positive Christian missions.

Ever hear of Mother Theresa? I hear she did some positive stuff, and the local (non-Christian) people seemed to really dig her.

Also, as it was a Christian group (if not Cathoic), I'd surmise that most of those particular donations came from Christians (if not Catholics). Therefore they are clearly not 'like you' as you maintain.

You might want to check your overt anti-religiousness if you want your kids growing up free of bias, you seem to be full of it.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Jan 21 2005, 03:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Jan 21 2005, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GerryCheevers@Jan 21 2005, 07:50 PM
I implicate the group that was present and refused AID for the people of that region because they would not convert to their "Christian" religion! I am also 100% positive that a good portion of that aid came directly from people like me who do not share their particular beliefs. I implicate them because that is who they are. I am not an Agnostic at all, I dont believe in Gods, Ghosts or Supernatural beings at all. I was brought up to be accepting and open, not to discriminate or judge. I am raising a family the same way, and I hope that my children's decisions will be educated and well-thought-out. Should they choose to join an organized religion I will support them, but I hope they can find a sect which preaches tolerance and acceptance, not discrimination.
Who says Religion isnt an Ideology? Organized religion? Are you only allowed to have rational thoughts if you are part of an organized religion? If anyone makes comments against organized religion of anykind why is it irrational? If this were Muslims or Jews or any other idealogue would anyone care? Or would they be outraged?

Still, you're basically picking out this one example and using it to maintain that for some reason 'all' religious groups are worse at charitable distribution then 'all' secular groups. That's BS. Do a little investigation, and I'm sure you'll find PLENTY of fantastically positive Christian missions.

Ever hear of Mother Theresa? I hear she did some positive stuff, and the local (non-Christian) people seemed to really dig her.

Also, as it was a Christian group (if not Cathoic), I'd surmise that most of those particular donations came from Christians (if not Catholics). Therefore they are clearly not 'like you' as you maintain.

You might want to check your overt anti-religiousness if you want your kids growing up free of bias, you seem to be full of it. [/b][/quote]
Actually I tend to bomb in on most of the religious posts here...so Im not simply picking up on just this one.
Of course you sound extremely tolerant yourself Mr Armageddon? Its always the same response I receive when trying to explain the negative aspects of religion. Organized religion does a masterful job of promoting itself...in all aspects!
By the way...the local people who "dug" Mother Theresa were shunned by their own religions and people.

[Patek23]

Not to sound like I'm trying to defend Christian religions, but there are also many other religions including some from India which would deny others their help because of religion. Either way that is still a disgusting act.

[Agamemnon]

Of course you sound extremely tolerant yourself Mr Armageddon?

What are you talking about?

Its always the same response I receive when trying to explain the negative aspects of religion. Organized religion does a masterful job of promoting itself...in all aspects!

Clearly it doesn't do a masterful job of promoting itself, since you're shooting your mouth off about it like there's no tomorrow. What's the problem with knowing that, like all aspects of life, there are some good people (and things) involved in religion, and some bad. Accept the good and try to get rid of the bad. There's nothing wrong with believing in something, and I know a whole lot of religious people who don't give a sh*t what religion I am, they tolerate.

By the way...the local people who "dug" Mother Theresa were shunned by their own religions and people.

Fair enough statement. Prove it. I've never heard about this persecution.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally posted by GerryCheevers@Jan 21 2005, 08:23 PM
Actually I tend to bomb in on most of the religious posts here...so Im not simply picking up on just this one.
Of course you sound extremely tolerant yourself Mr Armageddon? Its always the same response I receive when trying to explain the negative aspects of religion. Organized religion does a masterful job of promoting itself...in all aspects!
By the way...the local people who "dug" Mother Theresa were shunned by their own religions and people.

Explaining the negative aspects of religion is one thing, but painting a brush on all religious organizations is quite another. I'm not saying that is what you did, as you clearly have already made known that you are speaking about the select group. Armageddon and peter12 misunderstood where you're coming from (and rightly so), but in reality, they agree with you.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by TheyCallMeBruce@Jan 21 2005, 08:41 PM
Armageddon and peter12 misunderstood...

Stop calling me that!!!!

:P

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Jan 21 2005, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Jan 21 2005, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheyCallMeBruce@Jan 21 2005, 08:41 PM
Armageddon and peter12 misunderstood...

Stop calling me that!!!!

:P [/b][/quote]
Oops. lol Sorry.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Jan 21 2005, 03:38 PM

What are you talking about?

Clearly it doesn't do a masterful job of promoting itself, since you're shooting your mouth off about it like there's no tomorrow. What's the problem with knowing that, like all aspects of life, there are some good people (and things) involved in religion, and some bad. Accept the good and try to get rid of the bad. There's nothing wrong with believing in something, and I know a whole lot of religious people who don't give a sh*t what religion I am, they tolerate.

Fair enough statement. Prove it. I've never heard about this persecution.

For thousands of years the Lepers have been shunned. A leper is shunned by his society and religion as a sinner. They have literally been removed from their families...mostly of the Hindu religion...and banned to camps or Leper cities. This practise still continues even though Leprosy is 100% curable.

There are literally hundreds of stories on the persecution of Lepers.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by GerryCheevers@Jan 21 2005, 10:42 PM

For thousands of years the Lepers have been shunned. A leper is shunned by his society and religion as a sinner. They have literally been removed from their families...mostly of the Hindu religion...and banned to camps or Leper cities. This practise still continues even though Leprosy is 100% curable.

There are literally hundreds of stories on the persecution of Lepers.

Soo, religion is responsible for people not liking leprosy? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If lepers all over the world were being excluded, that seems to transcend religion and get into human nature and society.

Blaming religion for intolerance is taking a pretty narrow view, and selectively ignoring TONS of contrary evidence. To say 'religion is intolerant inherently' is akin to saying 'white people are better than black'. Its stupid, subjective, based on personal experience and bias, and a dumb thing to put out there. Can you find evidence that religion is intolerant? Sure. I could also find a white guy who's smarter than a black guy. I could also find the opposite... unless I never looked for it.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Jan 21 2005, 06:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Jan 21 2005, 06:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GerryCheevers@Jan 21 2005, 10:42 PM

For thousands of years the Lepers have been shunned. A leper is shunned by his society and religion as a sinner. They have literally been removed from their families...mostly of the Hindu religion...and banned to camps or Leper cities. This practise still continues even though Leprosy is 100% curable.

There are literally hundreds of stories on the persecution of Lepers.

Soo, religion is responsible for people not liking leprosy? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If lepers all over the world were being excluded, that seems to transcend religion and get into human nature and society.

Blaming religion for intolerance is taking a pretty narrow view, and selectively ignoring TONS of contrary evidence. To say 'religion is intolerant inherently' is akin to saying 'white people are better than black'. Its stupid, subjective, based on personal experience and bias, and a dumb thing to put out there. Can you find evidence that religion is intolerant? Sure. I could also find a white guy who's smarter than a black guy. I could also find the opposite... unless I never looked for it. [/b][/quote]
how about you do some research...then well talk.