Religious child abuse, a real case for it....?

[Thor]

We've had discussions here before about how the vast majority of religious parents bring up their children the best they see fit, and myself and most of us heathens agree theres no case for any abuse in such a sense. There is however cases like this that should shock even the moderate religious, I give you Deborah age 13, servant of God:

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduMIK4u65s

Documentary about 13-year-old Deborah Drapper, who, unlike other British teens has never heard of Britney Spears or Victoria Beckham. She has been brought up in a deeply Christian family and her parents have tried to make sure she and her ten brothers and sisters have grown up protected from the sins of the outside world.

Deborah is a bright, confident girl who has big ambitions for her life and the film spends a summer with her as she ventures out in the world to see what life outside her family could be and starts putting her beliefs forward to a wider audience.

I can't imagine how anyone couldn't define this as utter and complete brainwashing of a young mind. Scary stuff.

[MelBridgeman]

What does this have to do with religion? The real issue here is her crazy idiotic parents, who would still be crazy and idiotic without religion.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

What does this have to do with religion? The real issue here is her crazy idiotic parents, who would still be crazy and idiotic without religion.

lol yeah, what does her situation have anything to do with religion? I'm sure her parents if they were atheists or Buddhists would have isolated and removed their children from society and taught them society is full of evil sinners.

Quit defending religion because people are crazy with/without religion, I don't disagree at all there. The only debate is WITH religion these people have legitimacy with their craziness and can show justification in real life of their beliefs.

You would have a extremely hard time if you didnt have religion to back up your craziness.

ps I'm assuming you didnt watch the entire thing as well, since you replied so quickly.

[Jedi Ninja]

I could only get a few minutes into the video before I got bored... what, exactly, is it that they are doing to abuse their children?

[MelBridgeman]

Ok i just watched it...still wondering what you're soo outraged about..

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

I could only get a few minutes into the video before I got bored... what, exactly, is it that they are doing to abuse their children?

If you don't want to watch the documentary why do you care? Seriously, obviously its not a big deal, but brief these parents isolated and removed their numerous children from society, told them they are on earth to spread god's word and have convinced them something akin to "onward christian soldiers."

[Finny61]

I'm getting tired of these sermons, it seems conveniently every weekend there is a new one to try and make a case against anyone with a religious bone in their body. I'd just like to filter through the off-topic forum for one week without something like this.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Thor

If you don't want to watch the documentary why do you care? Seriously, obviously its not a big deal, but brief these parents isolated and removed their numerous children from society, told them they are on earth to spread god's word and have convinced them something akin to "onward christian soldiers."

So?
this is abuse btw
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3832842.ece

[Thor]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Ok i just watched it...still wondering what your soo outraged about..

25 mins since your first post, the video is over 50 mins.

But if you don't see what I mean about indoctrination from this documentary then I don't know what will.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

So?
this is abuse btw
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3832842.ece

You are aware of physical abuse and mental abuse?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Thor

25 mins since your first post, the video is over 50 mins.

But if you don't see what I mean about indoctrination from this documentary then I don't know what will.

Sorry I am late for my sleep over at my priests house. Will watch the rest later though.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Sorry I am late for my sleep over at my priests house. Will watch the rest later though.

Mel. These 12 kids are being brought up living without:

1. Being a part of society, removed from public/private schools.
2. Being told and repeatedly told they are sinners, evil, immoral and that they deserve to go to hell and that they need to prove their worthyness to their parents and life.
3. Given a home education that is teaching them outright LIES about science and history.

Basically isolating their children from reality, teaching them to believe only what the parents believe and not giving them a chance to learn for themselves.

If these parents were teaching these isolated children racism instead of christian belief they would be a source of shame and hatred from the public.

But because they teach these kids religion, its OK and not a big deal. But this is clear abuse, because simply these kids have no chance to learn and understand other beliefs and exposed to different cultures, races, beliefs, etc..

Its isolationism, indoctrination.

[GGG]

I don't think this is child abuse. I would add that teaching children to be racist although abhorent is not child abuse in my opinion. There are much worse cases of actual abuse such as the polygamist secs. Isolating children from society is not abuse. It is a choice and sometimes looking at society a reasonable one.

I disagree with what they are doing but I don't think it crosses the line of abuse.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don't think this is child abuse. I would add that teaching children to be racist although abhorent is not child abuse in my opinion. There are much worse cases of actual abuse such as the polygamist secs. Isolating children from society is not abuse. It is a choice and sometimes looking at society a reasonable one.

I disagree with what they are doing but I don't think it crosses the line of abuse.

So you would say this behavior is abhorrent?

As a parent, wouldn't you want your children exposed to truth, exposed to diversity and exposed to challenging their beliefs and ideology so that they can grow up as intelligent free thinking individuals?

[Jedi Ninja]

Nevermind, I see you've posted more stuff.

[GGG]

I don't think it is as bad as teaching your children to be racist but I would put it near there.

As a parent I want MY children to grow up exposed to a wide variety of opinions and be free to form their own opinions. But the question becomes when the state should intervene.

You have the Khadr's teaching hate Should those kids have been taken away? I don't know if the state should have that much power. I have this naive belief that once children have grown up in this enviroment they should still be able to make reasonable decisions once they grow up.

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by Thor

So you would say this behavior is abhorrent?

As a parent, wouldn't you want your children exposed to truth, exposed to diversity and exposed to challenging their beliefs and ideology so that they can grow up as intelligent free thinking individuals?

So you accept diversity so long as it does not include people who have views diverse from your own?

[FiftyBelow]

I didn't bother watching the entire video or set of videos... however the way that they 2 girls were raised is an awfully extreme example. From personal experience, all of the religious people I know were not brought up in such an environment. Yes, they were encouraged to follow their faith but it was never to the extent that they no longer believe in Science and History etc. I feel that this video is just simply trying to stereotype anybody who is raised under a religious setting as being disconnected with the world.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

You cite abuse, yet your summary of the show only mentions that they're not allowed to watch Britney Spears. You have to give us more than that to work with.

Well again thats why its important to watch the entire thing, because you should decide for yourself and of course judge it as you see fit.

Some of the things I am disturbed by I already posted about the shame, guilt and indoctrination of these kids, but there is a deeper issue about how they are brought up for a young age to believe they are deeply flawed, sinners, and that if they don't conform to the bible they go to hell, so at a very young age these kids are in fear of hellfire, which is real to them.

But again, watching the entire 50 something mins is really the point, if you want to argue for or against this way of raising kids you need to at least do that, but I'm thinking it would take a miracle to find anyone wanting to defend these parents.

[Dion]

They are not being physically or sexualy abused by thier parents.

The parents come across as loving and very caring and the children are raised in a good home.

Deborah seems quite happy and doesn't appear to miss the things that others kids might partake in.

She goes with Matthew to see first hand the life he has made for himself. And then off to the mall. Or off to a party and to be questioned about it the next day. It's not as if she's been totaly shut off from the world.

My impressions of Deborah is that she's very bright and intelligent young gal.

What about the parents that don't expose thier children to religion? Should we look down on them because they don't expose them to a belief system?

That's not abuse in my books.