Stelmach talks spending, health-care cuts

[Nancy]

I wonder if they'll finish the new South hospital in time to blow it up.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...4-c945f5797580

[missdpuck]

Wow. Just as Iowa Flames Fan is about to move to Calgary....

[ken0042]

We were just talking about this at work, as we saw our first paycheques without the health care premium attached. Very unfortunate timing on removing the premiums.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by ken0042

We were just talking about this at work, as we saw our first paycheques without the health care premium attached. Very unfortunate timing on removing the premiums.

I'm always amazed at what a fantastic job our provincial government does at planning.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Nancy

I'm always amazed at what a fantastic job our provincial government does at planning.

Are you seriously saying that they should have foresaw the drop in oil prices?

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Are you seriously saying that they should have foresaw the drop in oil prices?

Yes, anyone who's lived in Alberta for more than 5 years knows oil prices are cyclical.

[ken0042]

So, when was the last time oil prices went down 75% in 6 months? And what did you do to capitalize on this?

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So, when was the last time oil prices went down 75% in 6 months? And what did you do to capitalize on this?

Are you saying that oil prices haven't historically been cyclical?

I'm not running the province so I'm not sure why it matters what I did "to capitalize on this."

[Thunderball]

Only someone as stupid as Ed Stelmach would think this is a good idea.

We're paying through the nose for the last "Revolution", scaring thousands of healthcare professionals meant paying through the nose later to try and get them back. Blowing up hospitals meant spending exponentially more a few years later. Then there's paying 2006 prices for projects that were overdue in 1996, and planned in 1986. Not to mention that the government decided to get spend-happy at the same time as the private sector, thus raising costs for everyone.

Calgary has grown every single year since 1960 except two. I believe they were 1984 and 1985.

Unless the government wants to privative healthcare, they simply can't cut a system that is already strained to the max from the last time a hillbilly drop-out premier thought mindless cuts was a good idea.

Now is the time for governments to take on debt and provide jobs... not cutting safe, high education, and desperately required jobs from the one employer that is guaranteed to survive a recession, the government itself.

Alberta still has what is in theory, low (and unhealthy) unemployment. This is not the time to slam the panic button. This exemplifies the intelligence vacuum the Alberta political system is facing. The choices are various shades of outright incompetence or delusional thinking. The Liberals don't get it, and instead of capitalizing, elected the reddest of red liberals, and as a result, made themselves completely unelectable.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So, when was the last time oil prices went down 75% in 6 months? And what did you do to capitalize on this?

Most people would point to Norway's version of the Heritage Fund... and then point to ours to demonstrate an utter failure to capitalize on the last boom, as well as a complete lack of planning.

The Regressive Conservatives go from cutting programs they know nothing about to spending like drunken sailors on shore leave... again on programs they don't comprehend.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Byrns

Are you saying that oil prices haven't historically been cyclical?

I'm not running the province so I'm not sure why it matters what I did "to capitalize on this."

Yes, they have always been cyclical. However in the summer when the elimination of health care premiums was announced, the opposition was still complaining that the gov't was't giving enough back, because they were still basing their budget on oil prices that were almost 1/2 of what the price of oil was at the time.

And my point on you capitalizing on this is basically saying that very few people saw oil going below $40 again. You and I didn't know, and I have yet to hear any stories of investors who were able to make money on this, or were able to sell everything before the markets tanked.

Also to comment on Norway's version of the Heritage fund. Keep in mind the tax rates there. Something like 28% income tax- and 25% "GST." The comparison is like me and a guy who is living of an inheritance; and wondering why I can't put all of my paycheques into a saving account like the guy who gets $10K per month from his inheritance.

Edit- keep in mind guys; I don't like Ed as our premier and I really don't think he knows how to handle a recession. But I'm not going to blame him for things outside of his control.

[First Lady]

I would love to jump in on this debate; but I am lacking the free banter time right now.

I will throw in an article, it is a good read.

http://www.taxpayer.com/taxpayer/new...e?news_id=3429

Excerpt:

Our now premier, Ed Stelmach, in answering a question in regards to Alberta’s hidden sales tax on insurance offered this as part of his response: “The only absolute for me is to run balanced budgets and budget conservatively.”

What a difference a couple of years make.

Heck, what a difference six months make. Mid-summer when the province was rolling in an $8.5-billion surplus, and doling it out in billion dollar increments, few Albertans could even imagine that the province may consider running a deficit or dip into savings to cover any shortfall in 2009.

But that’s exactly what is happening.

Unfortunately, many Albertans, including some of those who sit around the provincial cabinet table will be quick to suggest that the unprecedented drop in the price of oil from $145 to $45 in a matter of a few months, precipitated this ‘need’ to withdraw from savings.

Talk about stretching the truth.

While $45 oil may seem low in comparison to this past summer, it is not all that low considering the price of oil over the past five years.

The Alberta government’s rapid and massive increase in spending over the past few years is the real cause of this situation. In fact, the CTF predicted in 2007 that the government’s appetite for spending would out-strip its supply of cash within two to five years, even if oil prices stayed high. Here we are two years later, and the CTF has been proven right.

So, just how severe is the government’s addiction to spending? Well, in 2008-09 the Alberta government will spend a national high, $10,513 per Albertan on government programs. In comparison, the three other western provinces will spend slightly over $8,000 per citizen.

[Nancy]

I think if you were to re-read posts here on CP you would find a number of people who had suggested that oil prices were artificially high and were driven by speculation that was unsustainable. It should be no surprise that oil prices have returned back more to historic, long-term trend levels.

All of the other excuses for high oil prices are now proving to be bunk. In particular, the claim that the developing world would keep price levels driving higher seems now to be completely disproved as the steepest decline in oil demand over the past few months is coming from the emerging economies.

The main problem for people who anticipated this reversal was not being able to know when it would occur. Just like the housing and tech-stock bubbles, the trend kept propegating itself for much longer than most contrarians imagined.

As for our provincial government, the problem was that they went on their spending spree at the worst possible time. Most of the capital projects that they undertook during the previous 2 years should have been taken on 5 years ago or deferred until construction costs had started to come down.

[getbak]

"Dear God, please give us another oil boom. I promise I won't piss it all away next time."

- Popular bumper sticker around Calgary in the early 1980s.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by getbak

"Dear God, please give us another oil boom. I promise I won't piss it all away next time."

- Popular bumper sticker around Calgary in the early 1980s.

That's awesome! Unfortunately, people are dumb enough to repeat their mistakes. Hence, the housing bubble.

[Shazam]

This province survived $12 oil. I hope it can survive $30 oil.

I can't believe people actually thought $100 oil was sustainable.

[Slava]

I think that this is incredibly embarrassing for the province. What were we thinking? We had some good times, paid down debt and now we already have to start cutting to try to get things back in line? Absolutely gross mismanagement of public money.

I get that oil fluctuates, and we all know that. But we are only 6 months into this down revenue time and already can't make ends meet? That is just pathetic. None of us could run our households that poorly.

[REDVAN]

I'm hoping oil goes back up so that I can get a job.

[twotoner]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So, when was the last time oil prices went down 75% in 6 months? And what did you do to capitalize on this?

See for yourself...
http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1869.gif