11-27-2008, 01:12 PM
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#1
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Market Mall Food Court
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Mortgage Crisis in the US Part 2! Commercial properties.
Doesn't look good.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081127/meltd...ming_soon.html
"We're probably in the first inning of the commercial mortgage problem," said Scott Tross, a real estate lawyer with Herrick Feinstein in New Jersey.
That's bad news for more than just property owners. When businesses go dark, employees lose jobs. Towns lose tax revenue. School budgets and social services feel the pinch.
Unlike home mortgages, businesses don't pay their loans over 30 years. Commercial mortgages are usually written for five, seven or 10 years with big payments due at the end. About $20 billion will be due next year, covering everything from office and condo complexes to hotels and malls.
The retail outlook is particularly bad. Circuit City and Linens 'n Things have sought bankruptcy protection. Home Depot, Sears, Ann Taylor and Foot Locker are closing stores.
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11-27-2008, 01:18 PM
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#2
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: in your blind spot.
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Be careful about the gift cards you buy this year. Make sure the retailer will be around when they would be used.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
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11-27-2008, 01:20 PM
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#3
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Has Towel, Will Travel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblehead
Be careful about the gift cards you buy this year. Make sure the retailer will be around when they would be used.
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I have the perfect solution for that ... I give $50 and $100 bills as gift cards. They're good anywhere too, not just one store.
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11-27-2008, 01:23 PM
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#4
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Prefect
I have the perfect solution for that ... I give $50 and $100 bills as gift cards. They're good anywhere too, not just one store.
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Thats my favorite gift card. No penalties, no limitations, no problems.
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11-27-2008, 01:26 PM
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#5
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Playboy Mansion Poolboy
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
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Another option is Visa or M/C gift cards. You do pay a bit of a premium, but I agree the whole concept of gift card giving has gotten way out of hand.
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11-27-2008, 01:27 PM
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#6
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One of the Nine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Prefect
I have the perfect solution for that ... I give $50 and $100 bills as gift cards. They're good anywhere too, not just one store.
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How long has it been since the last H&B reference?
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11-27-2008, 01:48 PM
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#7
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
I think we should criminalize bankrupcy
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That way we can seize the assets.
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11-27-2008, 01:59 PM
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#8
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor
That way we can seize the assets.
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__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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11-27-2008, 02:51 PM
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#9
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Has Towel, Will Travel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4X4
How long has it been since the last H&B reference?
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I'm sure it will be along shortly now that you've mentioned it. 
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11-27-2008, 06:25 PM
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#10
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Removed by Mod
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I'm investing in Hutterites & Bibles. 
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11-28-2008, 06:56 AM
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#11
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Prefect
I have the perfect solution for that ... I give $50 and $100 bills as gift cards. They're good anywhere too, not just one store.
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I don't know...a lot of places won't take $50's or $100's anymore!
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11-28-2008, 06:58 AM
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#12
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunnyvale nursing home
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Are we talking Canadian $50? Personally, I think you'd be safer with a $50 Itunes gift card... its value is actually stable.
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11-28-2008, 09:40 AM
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#13
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Has Towel, Will Travel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava
I don't know...a lot of places won't take $50's or $100's anymore!
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Really? I haven't encountered that much ... where are you running into that? There was one place last summer that didn't want my $100, but they changed their mind when it was about to walk out the door. I always thought it was illegal to rufuse legal tender, whether it's a $100 bill or a bag of pennies.
On the topic of legal tender, are postage stamps also considered legal tender? I was once told that they are an issue of the government of Canada, carry a monetary face value, and therefore have to be treated as legal tender. I've also been told by others that this was strictly a wartime measure or something like that. Does anyone know the definitive ruling on this?
Last edited by Ford Prefect; 11-28-2008 at 09:44 AM.
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11-28-2008, 10:13 AM
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#14
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary
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If we criminalize bankruptcy then we'd have to bring back debtor's prison. We can barely keep the criminals in prison, much less debtors.
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11-28-2008, 10:19 AM
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#15
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sunnyvale nursing home
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Prefect
Really? I haven't encountered that much ... where are you running into that? There was one place last summer that didn't want my $100, but they changed their mind when it was about to walk out the door. I always thought it was illegal to rufuse legal tender, whether it's a $100 bill or a bag of pennies.
On the topic of legal tender, are postage stamps also considered legal tender? I was once told that they are an issue of the government of Canada, carry a monetary face value, and therefore have to be treated as legal tender. I've also been told by others that this was strictly a wartime measure or something like that. Does anyone know the definitive ruling on this?
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I see these signs everywhere and some places that don't even have signs also refuse big bills... If you spend the whole $50, they will usually take it, but if you are trying to buy something $5, they'll usually refuse.
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11-28-2008, 10:34 AM
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#16
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Playboy Mansion Poolboy
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Prefect
I always thought it was illegal to rufuse legal tender, whether it's a $100 bill or a bag of pennies.
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See "Limitations" here regarding the proverbial bag of pennies.
But I think with respect to the law on accepting legal tender; if I owe you $100 and try to give you a $100 bill and you refuse; the debt is now over as you refused to accept legal tender. But there is nothing in the laws stating that one must be forced to make change for legal tender.
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11-28-2008, 10:35 AM
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#17
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Atomic Nerd
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Calgary
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I get ridiculous chain e-mails from people who don't know what the heck they are talking about warning their co-workers not to buy gift cards from Best Buy or Futureshop since they are owned by Circuit City in the US and CC is bankrupt - LOL!
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11-28-2008, 10:38 AM
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#18
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Prefect
Really? I haven't encountered that much ... where are you running into that? There was one place last summer that didn't want my $100, but they changed their mind when it was about to walk out the door. I always thought it was illegal to rufuse legal tender, whether it's a $100 bill or a bag of pennies.
On the topic of legal tender, are postage stamps also considered legal tender? I was once told that they are an issue of the government of Canada, carry a monetary face value, and therefore have to be treated as legal tender. I've also been told by others that this was strictly a wartime measure or something like that. Does anyone know the definitive ruling on this?
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I believe its illegal to refuse it to pay off a debt, not to purchase something.
EDIT - oops, already said 
__________________
MYK - Supports Arizona to democtratically pass laws for the state of Arizona
Rudy was the only hope in 08
2011 Election: Cons 40% - Nanos 38% Ekos 34%
Last edited by mykalberta; 11-28-2008 at 10:39 AM.
Reason: oops
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11-28-2008, 10:46 AM
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#19
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Has Towel, Will Travel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken0042
See "Limitations" here regarding the proverbial bag of pennies.
But I think with respect to the law on accepting legal tender; if I owe you $100 and try to give you a $100 bill and you refuse; the debt is now over as you refused to accept legal tender. But there is nothing in the laws stating that one must be forced to make change for legal tender. |
So it only applies on personal debt? Not retail sales? That doesn't seem right. How can double standards like that apply to currency. And what's the meaning of legal tender if it can't be used universally? I'm not doubting you, just trying to understand this as it doesn't seem reasonable to me.
Oh ya, I tried that link but it redirected me to a different page where I couldn't readily identify anything related to legal tender.
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11-28-2008, 11:12 AM
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#20
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Playboy Mansion Poolboy
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
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Here's a simpler version of that link; hope that works. http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/c-52/bo-ga
I think the difference is that in the case of debt; one part of the contract has already begun. Let's say I walk into Ford's store and ask you "Can I take this widget home today, and I will pay you tomorrow." You agree and I owe you $100. Tomorrow you refuse the $100 payment, so the debt is wiped out; as I tried to hold up my end of the contract but you refused.
In a normal retail environment, we are still negotiating the contract when I offer to buy the widget and give you the $100 bill for it. Because we have not agreed to the contract yet, you are under no obligation to enter into that contract.
But what is really happening now is retailers are either refusing old $100 bills, or refusing to make change for $100 on a $5 purchase. Both are legal in any circumstance; because technically once a new bill is issued by the Bank of Canada, the old bills are supposed to be surrendered back to the Bank of Canada for replacement. So technically they are no longer legal tender. In the case of the change for $100- the merchant is refusing to enter into a contract with you that will prevent him from making any further sales; due to you having all of his change.
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