Can someone define Working Notice in Alberta to me? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

photon · 11-21-2008, 10:16 AM

What kind of raw deal is that.. rather than a package you just tell someone their job is going to be gone in x months and that's acceptable?

I guess it makes sense, just feels like a raw deal.

Claeren · 11-21-2008, 10:21 AM

That is not a lot of detail?

The problem with a lot of labour law is that at the end of the day you are the little guy and they are the big guy and it is hard for the little guy to do much of anything regardless of what their rights are.

The fight costs more than it is worth.

That all being said, usually few companies give 'working notice' because you become too much a liability internally once you know you are being let go.

Claeren.

fredr123 · 11-21-2008, 10:41 AM

Our firm deals with employment law. Feel free to PM me if you have any more specific questions.

Generally, Duhaime has a wealth of information available for you to digest. An employer can fire an employee for no reason at all provided they give that employee reasonable notice of the termination. The period of reasonable notice is determined by considering a number of factors including the length of employment, the age of the employee, the type of job, etc. Provincial employment standards legislation sets a minimum period for notice but common law will serve to extend that period. Rather than allow the employee to work during that period of notice, they can offer the employee pay in lieu of notice. Why keep an unmotivated employee around, right?

They say the rationale behind working notice is to give the employee sufficient time to make alternate arrangements and get a different job. I imagine it would be an awkward situation to be in: expected to come in every day as per before and do your job knowing that in two weeks (or whatever) your job is gone.

photon · 11-21-2008, 10:51 AM

Ok that makes sense, thanks guys.

In this case it's 3 months, which is probably sufficient notice given my length of employment and position and such.

Pay in lieu was what I was expecting to happen, this working notice thing just kind of threw me for a loop, I didn't think that that would be an option.

As you say, makes no sense, kind of demotivates your employees. And if I had another job I could go to in two weeks, there's nothing that really stops me from giving my notice and quitting is there.. so they'll be without the stuff they need to do the transition.

troutman · 11-21-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claeren

The problem with a lot of labour law is that at the end of the day you are the little guy and they are the big guy and it is hard for the little guy to do much of anything regardless of what their rights are.

Claeren.

In Germany (probably most of Europe) it is nearly impossible to fire someone. There are people that literally read the newspaper all day, and the employer can do nothing about it.

FlamesKickAss · 11-21-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

In Germany (probably most of Europe) it is nearly impossible to fire someone. There are people that literally read the newspaper all day, and the employer can do nothing about it.

thanks, looks like I need to move to Germany!

troutman · 11-21-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

thanks, looks like I need to move to Germany!

Or start your own law firm, so you can surf CP all day.

I notice there are at least three lawyers in here right now.

fredr123 · 11-21-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

thanks, looks like I need to move to Germany!

Or work for the Government of Canada.

LChoy · 11-21-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredr123

Or work for the Government of Canada.

It's the same here over at the GOA. Unless you are caught drinking on the job, doing drugs, or illegal pictures on your computer, it's hard to be fired here. Even if you are caught with legal porn, it's not ground for immediate dismissal, as it could be an addiction and the person can go seek treatment for that.

metal_geek · 11-21-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

Or start your own law firm, so you can surf CP all day.

I notice there are at least three lawyers in here right now.

Or start a job as IT manager, surf the internet for a living...

Claeren · 11-21-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

As you say, makes no sense, kind of demotivates your employees. And if I had another job I could go to in two weeks, there's nothing that really stops me from giving my notice and quitting is there.. so they'll be without the stuff they need to do the transition.

Exactly.

Ideally you work hard enough for 2-3 weeks that there is no way they could ethically bad mouth you and then you start a new job asap and leave them with a bunch of half finished work.

And then if you are really bold and know they are desperate you offer to come in on the weekends/evenings for twice your old wage and finish it up for them! lol

I would suggest though that this is not the market to drag your heels in looking for new work. I would literally get on it today and start applying. You may have been lucky in that you are being layed off before most and therefore can act to position yourself for the coming recession better than those who will get hit in a few months time and have fewer new job options and more desperate competition for those spots?

Claeren.

Nancy · 11-21-2008, 11:39 AM

Unfortunately, people seem to have high expectations about what the law provides in terms of minimum notice and severance. I understand that it's 2 weeks for less than 4 years, and 8 weeks for more than 10 years.

If it's any consolation, I know 2 people who have gotten laid off in the past week and neither of them worked directly in O & G or in construction.

Bend it like Bourgeois · 11-21-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

Ok that makes sense, thanks guys.

In this case it's 3 months, which is probably sufficient notice given my length of employment and position and such.

Pay in lieu was what I was expecting to happen, this working notice thing just kind of threw me for a loop, I didn't think that that would be an option.

As you say, makes no sense, kind of demotivates your employees. And if I had another job I could go to in two weeks, there's nothing that really stops me from giving my notice and quitting is there.. so they'll be without the stuff they need to do the transition.

If you quit in they don't have to keep paying you I think. So they're probably hoping this happens. It would be a way to (maybe) save a little money.

Hack&Lube · 11-21-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

thanks, looks like I need to move to Germany!

or be a unionized auto worker.

Actually in Germany, you don't need a job. You can support a family, have a nice house, a nice car, give your kids piano lessons, etc. and live off social security.

Hack&Lube · 11-21-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metal_geek

Or start a job as IT manager, surf the internet for a living...

that's not a true at all, the real IT guys work very hard and long hours and get paid decently as well. Tech support call desk guys on the other hand...

jolinar of malkshor · 11-21-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredr123

Or work for the Government of Canada.

Don't lump all jobs into one. There are just as many private sector jobs where people surf CP all day. There are some government jobs that you couldn't pay me enough to work at.

metal_geek · 11-21-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

that's not a true at all, the real IT guys work very hard and long hours and get paid decently as well. Tech support call desk guys on the other hand...

You're right...

fredr123 · 11-21-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Don't lump all jobs into one. There are just as many private sector jobs where people surf CP all day. There are some government jobs that you couldn't pay me enough to work at.

My comment was mostly for your benefit. Thanks for taking the bait.

I didn't mean that Federal employees were lazy or anything like that, but mostly that it's pretty difficult to be fired from a Federal job with a union backing you without some kind of gross misconduct.

photon · 11-21-2008, 02:33 PM

We recently got bought out by a US based company owned by a huge media giant. Originally they were going to cut just one staff up here in the "Calgary Office" (due to the economic situation down there), but a few of us made an issue of it since they were cutting staff but increasing the work load. But they are a bunch of ****ing morons so rather than deal with that they decided to simply delete the Calgary Office.. basically throwing the millions they spent on us a few short months ago out the window.

It's a bit more complicated than that but I can't get into the details about how they've operated with some of the guys here.

We all kind of saw it coming when their answer to management's dissatisfaction with the low morale with the development team was to get everyone to work 60 hours a week so they would like us better and treat us better. I kid you not, that's exactly what the reasoning was.

fredr123 · 11-21-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photon

We all kind of saw it coming when their answer to management's dissatisfaction with the low morale with the development team was to get everyone to work 60 hours a week so they would like us better and treat us better. I kid you not, that's exactly what the reasoning was.

Forced Stockholm Syndrome on everyone? That's some creative thinking there.