Chryco/Fiat, CAW may screw it all up

[DuffMan]

Not much time left and the CAW is not willing to bring down labor costs by $19/hr. Only willing to do $7/hr.

Chrysler has already demanded that the CAW trim hourly labour costs by $19 (Canadian) to $55 to match what it pays UAW workers at its U.S. plants.
The CAW has refused to go that far, offering Chrysler the same $7 to $7.25 an hour it has already given General Motors of Canada Ltd. in overall cost cuts, plus agreeing to reduce break times at Chrysler plants in Brampton, Ont., and Windsor, Ont., which would reduce hourly costs by what the union says is several more dollars an hour

I like this comment by the Fiat CEO

Mr. Marchionne, 56, said Chrysler workers on both sides of the border have to end their sense of entitlement if the wrecked auto maker is to have any chance of repairing itself

http://business.theglobeandmail.com/.../Business/home

[CaptainCrunch]

Chapter 11 + good bye manufacturing sector in Ontario.

Its going to get bad people, better start investing in canned goods and fire arms.

[FlamesKickAss]

Wow so CAW thinks its better that chrysler leaves and they take a 74/hr paycut than work out a deal and take a 19/hr paycut?

I know which one I would choose.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

Wow so CAW thinks its better that chrysler leaves and they take a 74/hr paycut than work out a deal and take a 19/hr paycut?

I know which one I would choose.

and why is it so hard for the Union to understand that concept?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Chapter 11 + good bye manufacturing sector in Ontario.

Looking forward to it, actually. Chrysler hitting bankruptcy protection will force the CAW's hand. I don't think any of the big 3 are going away, but at least one has to hit bankruptcy with a legitimate threat of going away before the unions get over their sense of entitlement.

[mykalberta]

The CAW and UAW are playing a very interesting game of chicken. If they lose they have no one to blame but themselves.

On a side note, your cause might be better told to the public if you didnt hire ex union guys to be the head. That bozo that was on TV was so flustered that it was hilarious. The spokesman for the free'd US ship was a better spokesperson.

[Hack&Lube]

Geez, $55 / hour.

That's like taking a paycut to $110,000 / year for sitting on your ass while your factory isn't running to capacity as there are thousands of unsold vehicles sitting in lots. Screw medical/law school. Be a unionized unskilled production line laborer!

$74 / hour is $150,000 / year! (what they are getting paid now - and this is ALREADY after concessions that have happened over the years, what did these ridiculous people use to make? $100 / hour???!!!)

[FlamesKickAss]

Yeah I'll go work for 55/hr

[Frank the Tank]

Having gone to university in Windsor and living there for about 6 years, I can tell you that the auto workers union is totally out of control. They are like a 900 pound gorilla that can sit anywhere they want. I hope this recession brings them down to size.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sample00

and why is it so hard for the Union to understand that concept?

Because they're not the ones cashing Chrysler paycheques. They're too busy looking after themselves they're not looking after the people in their union.

[Bobblehead]

The people I've spoken to think they are screwed regardless.

They believe that in the next few years, their plant will be shipped offshore no matter what wage concessions they make.

The story that was recounted to me was a couple years ago Chrysler was going to end one of the shifts in Windsor, but the gov't ended up giving them(Chrysler Canada) money on the condition that the 2nd shift remain running. Today that plant is down to one shift, and Chrysler is asking more money to keep the plant open. The workers themselves know the plants are in deep trouble (who knows what the union brass think), but they do not believe that the concessions they make are going to save their job.

Their point of view is they can work for $55/hr or they can work for $15/hr until the plant relocates, and the plant is going to relocate. Why should they work for less if they do not believe it will save their job?

[Ford Prefect]

Sabe usted hablar español?

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

Yeah I'll go work for 55/hr

I am not a union supporter, but I believe that $55 isnt the hourly pay, its the accumulated cost of the employee including Benefits, Vacation, etc.

Not sure what it works out to as a wage.

The hourly numbers are killing the Union publically.

[Ozy_Flame]

Well $55 (and upwards) is excessive, but if that was the agreement before and you know that taking a pay cut isn't going to save your sinking company, why bother taking less? I don't understand the concept of taking significantly less and drawing it out painfully. Make the big bucks in the short-term, declare bankruptcy, and move on.

I'm on the fence with this one - taking less pay is better to the public, but if they're doomed, they're doomed. May as well milk it for what you can get.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Well $55 (and upwards) is excessive, but if that was the agreement before and you know that taking a pay cut isn't going to save your sinking company, why bother taking less? I don't understand the concept of taking significantly less and drawing it out painfully. Make the big bucks in the short-term, declare bankruptcy, and move on.

I'm on the fence with this one - taking less pay is better to the public, but if they're doomed, they're doomed. May as well milk it for what you can get.

Isn't it up to the union leaders to propose making the concessions under the condition that the plants remain where they currently are, thus saving jobs?

I think unions in general have become too powerful, and need to be busted apart.

[Bobblehead]

GM opened a new plant in China in Dec. They are talking about expanding capacity there.

The U.S. auto maker said at the time that it will expand its production capacity in China as well as its product portfolio. It plans to add 30 new models in China over the next five years, a spokeswoman said.

GM in December opened a new passenger-vehicle plant in the northeastern Chinese city of Shenyang.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123979346116820629.html

Yet they are begging North American Governments for money, unions for wage roll backs, etc.

I can see why governments and unions are jaded and believe any money/concessions are going to end up paying for Chinese expansion.

[Thunderball]

I think filing for Bankruptcy Protection and tossing these bloated unions is the only solution for the auto sector. A Union's responsibility is to protect its members from unfair practices, unsafe work conditions, and woefully inadequate wages. Essentially, things now monitored by the government and secured by a free and open market.

People who are pro-union, or at the very least sympathetic always say that without unions, these people would be at the mercy of their employer, and that the government would never help. I call BS on both of those. Yes, assembly line workers would have significantly less bargaining power vis a vis their employers, simply because they are more replaceable, compared to highly trained and scarce professionals. Working at an auto plant doesn't require a 4 year undergrad degree or a professional degree. Does this mean it would revert to the time of Dickens? Hardly. It means they'd have to join the rest of the working world and make a median salary with decent (not exploitative) benefit packages. There are plenty of industries in Canada that are not unionized in which their people are doing just fine. As well, the government is always happy to attack an exploitative employer, since it often means increased revenue for them through fines.

Unions were born out of uncaring governments and vicious times. Times have changed substantially and its time to start getting rid of them. This would be a great one to take out first. I'd then take aim at taking the teeth out of the public sector employees (who are already overpaid and recession resistant due to the nature of their employer). How licensed professionals like nurses can be unionized (or allowed to be without violating their ethics) is totally beyond my comprehension.

[CaptainCrunch]

All of the higher up political figures were so busy bashing a hundred or so executives for making 7 figure salaries, that they forgot to talk about another major root cause and that was the hundreds and hundreds that were making 6 figure compensation plans.

[REDVAN]

Why don't they just use robots?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Why don't they just use robots?

stay tuned!