Hot water heating...

[Sample00]

hey gang,
i cant remember if I asked this here before so I thought I would post it again.
I know I dont have alzheimers but maybe I have sometimers.

anyhow, long story short.
I have a hot water heating system in my home. Its operated by a natural gas boiler thats about 30 years old. Anyhow, this boiler is old, not very energy efficient and needs to be replaced. We have radiators throughout our home to disperse the heat. Also this boiler handles the infloor heating in my garage.

secondly, I have a seperate hot water tank that of course is used for bathing, dishes etc.

my first question is...is there a boiler out there that would handle combining the two seperate units?

secondly, does anybody have any idea how much a unit like that would cost?

if there isnt a unit out there that can handle both applications (boiler and hot water tank) I am prepared to go to a tankless hot water system for bath, dishes etc and a seperate unit for the heating.

any help or thoughts on this would be appreciated. I dont want to have my heating system go down when its -40 outside.

I realize plumbers and HVAC people are probably out making tons of money right now but if there are any of you out there, your help would be greatly appreciated.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

hey gang,
i cant remember if I asked this here before so I thought I would post it again.
I know I dont have alzheimers but maybe I have sometimers.

anyhow, long story short.
I have a hot water heating system in my home. Its operated by a natural gas boiler thats about 30 years old. Anyhow, this boiler is old, not very energy efficient and needs to be replaced. We have radiators throughout our home to disperse the heat. Also this boiler handles the infloor heating in my garage.

secondly, I have a seperate hot water tank that of course is used for bathing, dishes etc.

my first question is...is there a boiler out there that would handle combining the two seperate units?

secondly, does anybody have any idea how much a unit like that would cost?

if there isnt a unit out there that can handle both applications (boiler and hot water tank) I am prepared to go to a tankless hot water system for bath, dishes etc and a seperate unit for the heating.

any help or thoughts on this would be appreciated. I dont want to have my heating system go down when its -40 outside.

I realize plumbers and HVAC people are probably out making tons of money right now but if there are any of you out there, your help would be greatly appreciated.

Well there is, but they dont recommend it because the impurities in water can calcify over time and plug the pipes in your system. Maybe I should clarify, ithe person who did our installation did not recommend such a system. What the cost is, I do not know.

We have had radiant infloor heating for 20 years. But the tubes etc are filled with some kind of glycol. Then we have hot water tanks for household purposes you were wondering about.

[You Need a Thneed]

We love the tankles water heater we have in our house. It's very nice not having to worry about running out of Hot water.

The Rinnai tankless we have (about 185,000 BTU, IIRC) costs about $4000, so it's pretty expensive compared to a hot water tank, but it also takes up a lot less space in your mechanical room (if you need it). The plumbers we talked to didn't recommend the Home Depot Brands.

As for Boilers, I have no idea.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The Rinnai tankless we have (about 185,000 BTU, IIRC) costs about $4000, so it's pretty expensive compared to a hot water tank,

Wow, they are that much, eh? Was that a middle ground kind of price or high end?

I would love one of these but at that price, I may have to wait a bit.

[Ronald Pagan]

You can sign up for an ecoENERGY retrofit to help cover the costs of a new boiler.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/p...?attr=4#grants

[Bagor]

Don't have an answer to your question but would suggest having a look here as a way to recoup some cash.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/p...lify-grant.cfm

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/p...ers.cfm?attr=4


Beat to it by Ronald

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Wow, they are that much, eh? Was that a middle ground kind of price or high end?

I would love one of these but at that price, I may have to wait a bit.

I think Rinnai is pretty much the high end. Similar ones at home depot run for 1500ish, plus the accessories you need to vent it probobly add another 200-300 bucks. On top of that you'll have to pay a plumber to install it, etc.

But don't take my advice, talk to a plumber.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by redforever

Well there is, but they dont recommend it because the impurities in water can calcify over time and plug the pipes in your system. Maybe I should clarify, ithe person who did our installation did not recommend such a system. What the cost is, I do not know.

We have had radiant infloor heating for 20 years. But the tubes etc are filled with some kind of glycol. Then we have hot water tanks for household purposes you were wondering about.

thats not the first time I have heard that so I may have to reconsider my thinking on that note.

our boiler is all hot water for our heating, we have baseboard type radiators in the house that dispenses the heat. Our boiler also runs the infloor in the garage, again with hot water, and not glycol.

the funny thing is, the gentleman that we bought the house from, did a major renovation to the home about 5 years ago, tons of upgrades, new cabinets, new flooring, garage add on 26x42ft to the existing double garage that was already attached. He literally spared no expense in doing the upgrade but he cheaped out on the most important thing, like the boiler and hot water system. Makes no sense to me.

so now I get to deal with it..

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

You can sign up for an ecoENERGY retrofit to help cover the costs of a new boiler.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/p...?attr=4#grants

Originally Posted by Bagor

Don't have an answer to your question but would suggest having a look here as a way to recoup some cash.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/p...lify-grant.cfm

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/p...ers.cfm?attr=4


Beat to it by Ronald

thanks to both of you for this.
looks like I might be eligible for a retrofit if the new unit meets the criteria. which I believe it should.
thanks

[ernie]

We have an oil burning furnace that both heats the water lines for house heat and provides continuous hot water.

If I move into a house that has a separate hot water tank one of the first things I'll look at is getting rid of it and going to the same set up we have now. I love the continuous hot water, expecially when you have large tub to fill, you have guests or if you have a large family.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by ernie

We have an oil burning furnace that both heats the water lines for house heat and provides continuous hot water.

If I move into a house that has a separate hot water tank one of the first things I'll look at is getting rid of it and going to the same set up we have now. I love the continuous hot water, expecially when you have large tub to fill, you have guests or if you have a large family.

if I may ask, how are you finding the heating costs as compared to Natural gas for example.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ernie

We have an oil burning furnace that both heats the water lines for house heat and provides continuous hot water.

If I move into a house that has a separate hot water tank one of the first things I'll look at is getting rid of it and going to the same set up we have now. I love the continuous hot water, expecially when you have large tub to fill, you have guests or if you have a large family.

So you have what? an oil tank? Then you have to keep getting the tank filled and you can always smell oil. We used to have that, it was in a rural setting though.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

thats not the first time I have heard that so I may have to reconsider my thinking on that note.

our boiler is all hot water for our heating, we have baseboard type radiators in the house that dispenses the heat. Our boiler also runs the infloor in the garage, again with hot water, and not glycol.

the funny thing is, the gentleman that we bought the house from, did a major renovation to the home about 5 years ago, tons of upgrades, new cabinets, new flooring, garage add on 26x42ft to the existing double garage that was already attached. He literally spared no expense in doing the upgrade but he cheaped out on the most important thing, like the boiler and hot water system. Makes no sense to me.

so now I get to deal with it..

So your boiler right now is for heating? And you still have regular hot water tanks, right? for household purposes?

I dont know what system you will eventually end up with heating water for household purposes, but really, I would talk to someone who knows about radiant heating systems and get their opinion about running regular water through those lines. You can easily replace the boiler for a new modern and more efficient one. We have had to replace our boiler once in the 20 years that we have had radiant infloor heating. While you have that done, why not have that person drain the lines of water and put in that glycol stuff.

Then deal with the hot water for household use situation.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by redforever

So your boiler right now is for heating? And you still have regular hot water tanks, right? for household purposes?

I dont know what system you will eventually end up with heating water for household purposes, but really, I would talk to someone who knows about radiant heating systems and get their opinion about running regular water through those lines. You can easily replace the boiler for a new modern and more efficient one. We have had to replace our boiler once in the 20 years that we have had radiant infloor heating. While you have that done, why not have that person drain the lines of water and put in that glycol stuff.

Then deal with the hot water for household use situation.

I didnt realize you could do that. since we have baseboard radiators, you can run glycol through those to heat??
just making sure i understand you correctly.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

I didnt realize you could do that. since we have baseboard radiators, you can run glycol through those to heat??
just making sure i understand you correctly.

I dont know how your baseboard radiators work. What type of water lines or coils run through them? In other words, are they the same type of coils that go through the slab in your garage floor?

If that is the case, then yes, you can drain them of water and put in the glycol.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by redforever

So you have what? an oil tank? Then you have to keep getting the tank filled and you can always smell oil. We used to have that, it was in a rural setting though.

yes. Tank is outside but unless it's a perfectly still day we don't get oil smell from the exhaust. Thankfully in Halifax days without wind are few and far between. Home heating oil is common in the Maritimes and New England.

My other choices would be propane or electric heat. When we bought the house nearly 5 years ago oil was the cheapest route to go and it so happened that was what the house. Not sure if it cheapest now or not.

Natural gas is far cheaper but only a few areas in the Halifax Metro have it at this point. They are slowly laying down the pipework for it so more and more areas can get it but i would expect we would be one of the last. One Hotel in downtown halifax switched over last year and immediately cut heating costs in at least half. But that isn't an option for us.

How much are people in Calgary paying to heat a standard 3 bedroom, 2 storey house? Just curious to see how it compares.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ernie

yes. Tank is outside but unless it's a perfectly still day we don't get oil smell from the exhaust. Thankfully in Halifax days without wind are few and far between. Home heating oil is common in the Maritimes and New England.

My other choices would be propane or electric heat. When we bought the house nearly 5 years ago oil was the cheapest route to go and it so happened that was what the house. Not sure if it cheapest now or not.

Natural gas is far cheaper but only a few areas in the Halifax Metro have it at this point. They are slowly laying down the pipework for it so more and more areas can get it but i would expect we would be one of the last. One Hotel in downtown halifax switched over last year and immediately cut heating costs in at least half. But that isn't an option for us.

How much are people in Calgary paying to heat a standard 3 bedroom, 2 storey house? Just curious to see how it compares.

ok, did not realize you were from down east. I know someone from the Halifax area and they told me the same thing about natural gas not being readily available for the average consumer. It just struck me as so odd being that oil and natural gas is now an abundant resource in your area.

We had to have our oil tank in the basement, but at that time I lived in rural Saskatchewan and because of the cold winters, I dont think oil could be kept outside during that time of the year.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by redforever

ok, did not realize you were from down east. I know someone from the Halifax area and they told me the same thing about natural gas not being readily available for the average consumer. It just struck me as so odd being that oil and natural gas is now an abundant resource in your area.

Well first the politicians would have to stop doing things like bringing in gas price regulation to "save the country gas station" (doesn't work as they have to pay more to get the gas which is the problem...one look at PEI price regulation could have told them that), putting leashes on cats (the many months the city council has been on about this is ridiculous), turning down the construction of office buildings that would have companies moving head offices to Halifax because it MAY obstruct ONE view line from the citadel to the harbour, redoing intersections to make what amounts to a 50 m suicide lane and simply pushing traffic jams down the road 200 m, pursuing a money losing high speed Bedford idea to save Bedford residents who don't want it a whole 10 minutes on a commute, not be willing to try lane control because and I quote "it's be proven NOT to work in most cities", doing study after study on redoing a refurb on the Metro Centre or maybe building a replacement (its been going on for about a decade or something without a decision)....

To put it simply the politicians here seem to be even more useless than most places. They very rarely do something actually useful to the general population like run gas lines or water lines or sewer lines or approve projects that bring jobs into the area.

[edn88]

The system I have in my house is a boiler that feeds the heating system, the infloor basement heating, and my hotwater tank is heated by the boiler...

But importantly the boiler water is separate from the hot water... it merely heats the hot water tank through a heat exchanger in the hot water tank.

When my original hot water tank needed to be replaced, the idiot plumber replaced my tank with a storage tank and fed the boiler water into storage tank... not a good situation for sure.

After the headache I went through with that, I wish I would have gotten the tankless hot water system - even at $4K