Those greedy self centred Americans

[MarchHare]

Ah, but to put things into perspective, take a look at this graph: http://members.arstechnica.com/x/hux/tsunami_relief.gif

Compared to other first-world nations, Americans have been somewhat stingy.

And also realize that US citizens donated over ten times as much in the wake of September 11th, an event that -- while incredibly tragic -- pales in comparison to the utter devastation in SE Asia now.

[Agamemnon]

Can't they be greedy and self-centered AND donate? Why the narrow categories, can they only be one or the other?

[MarchHare]

Originally posted by fotze@Jan 4 2005, 04:19 PM
I knew as sooon as I posted this, there would be something to show the Americans in a bad light, quicker than I thought though.

The 9/11 theory may also shed light on why Sweden has donated so much. They were disproportionately affected by it.

You misinterpret my comments; I didn't mean to bash Americans but rather to show they're not the pinaccles of generosity your original post would have people believe.

[nfotiu]

Originally posted by MarchHare@Jan 4 2005, 10:12 PM
Ah, but to put things into perspective, take a look at this graph: http://members.arstechnica.com/x/hux/tsunami_relief.gif

Compared to other first-world nations, Americans have been somewhat stingy.

And also realize that US citizens donated over ten times as much in the wake of September 11th, an event that -- while incredibly tragic -- pales in comparison to the utter devastation in SE Asia now.

Between 200 million in private donations and the US governments 350 million dollar pledge, the number is more like 550 million, almost 5 times the 120 million referenced in that chart.

[RougeUnderoos]

It may not be great on a per-capita basis but the Yanks have all told pledged more than half a billion dollars. Not to shabby.

Other "Not Just American" stuff... I heard today that Doctors Without Borders/Medecins Sans Frontiers has actually asked people to stop donating to their Asia relief fund. They have enough money to cover their programs over there. One report said "stop sending money to them" but another said "donate to their general fund" so I think the message is "don't stop donating to Doctors Without Borders even though they have tsunami relief covered!"

I can't find the link now but earlier today BBC.com had a story about how a lot of $$ was pledged to Iran from everyone last year after the earthquake but not much of it ever showed up. Once the cameras leave and another story happens... you get the gist. Don't know how that will apply here as this story is getting, for whatever reasons, probably 100 times the coverage that earthquake got.

[MarchHare]

Between 200 million in private donations and the US governments 350 million dollar pledge, the number is more like 550 million, almost 5 times the 120 million referenced in that chart.

The chart is only counting private donations from individuals. The data comes from here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4145259.stm

[nfotiu]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Jan 4 2005, 10:41 PM
It may not be great on a per-capita basis but the Yanks have all told pledged more than half a billion dollars. Not to shabby.

Other "Not Just American" stuff... I heard today that Doctors Without Borders/Medecins Sans Frontiers has actually asked people to stop donating to their Asia relief fund. They have enough money to cover their programs over there. One report said "stop sending money to them" but another said "donate to their general fund" so I think the message is "don't stop donating to Doctors Without Borders even though they have tsunami relief covered!"

I can't find the link now but earlier today BBC.com had a story about how a lot of $$ was pledged to Iran from everyone last year after the earthquake but not much of it ever showed up. Once the cameras leave and another story happens... you get the gist. Don't know how that will apply here as this story is getting, for whatever reasons, probably 100 times the coverage that earthquake got.

It does seem like this disaster for whatever reason has captured north america's attention a lot more than others in poorer parts of the world. It seems to be a bit of a fallout from the Iraq war/september 11 that the Americans are desperate to show they don't just care about themselves. I've been to a lot of the places that were hit, so it kind of hits home for me. Maybe enough people have been there, that there is a little bit of a personal connection, unlike Rwanda or Iran.

It does get kind of icky though when you see cnn having hour long programs on the politics of the Tsunami. It can't be anything but a good thing that so much money was donated from whatever phenomenom is happening. It seems that whatever money can fix over there will be fixed now. But there are a lot of other disasters going on in the world that could probably use as much attention as well.

[Agamemnon]

Well if global reputation is a concern for the American people, then they'd better keep the money rolling. This could go a long way in mending several severely strained international fences, especially w/ the UN and relief agencies. Good 'move' if they can keep the charitable momentum going.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by nfotiu@Jan 4 2005, 03:54 PM

It does seem like this disaster for whatever reason has captured north america's attention a lot more than others in poorer parts of the world. It seems to be a bit of a fallout from the Iraq war/september 11 that the Americans are desperate to show they don't just care about themselves. I've been to a lot of the places that were hit, so it kind of hits home for me. Maybe enough people have been there, that there is a little bit of a personal connection, unlike Rwanda or Iran.

I think part of it is there is so much amazing video of the actual event. I remember hardly anything of that Iran earthquake -- maybe one snippet of a wailing woman and that kind of thing makes a lot of people just change the channel.

Seeing those waves crashing in and the destruction and screaming and people getting washed away, some of that stuff we'll never forget. It also looks like such a paradise that has been destroyed. Bam, Iran doesn't have that "paradise" thing going for it and even worse, who had ever heard of it? Not me and not most people. Everyone has at least heard of India and some of the other countries.

How much effect does all those European tourists have on the amount of attention the event is getting? If they weren't there?

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Jan 4 2005, 11:22 PM
Bam, Iran doesn't have that "paradise" thing going for it and even worse, who had ever heard of it? Not me and not most people. Everyone has at least heard of India and some of the other countries.

You never heard of Iran before last year's earthquake there? Call me surprised, I thought many more people would know of Iran than Indonesia or Sri Lanka, parallel disasters aside.

[octothorp]

Originally posted by MarchHare@Jan 4 2005, 03:49 PM

The chart is only counting private donations from individuals. The data comes from here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4145259.stm

If you did a quick readjustment to include government donations, it would be like this:


country gov't + public = total / population = per capita
Norway 182 + 30 = 212 / 4.6 = 46.1
Qatar 35 + 0 = 35 / .8 = 43.75
Sweden 80 + 60 = 140 / 9 = 15.5
Denmark 75 + 0 = 75 / 5.4 = 13.9
Britain 242 + 146 = 386 / 60 = 6.4
Australia 46 + 58 = 104 / 20 = 5.2
Canada 80 + 65 = 145/30 = 4.8
Netherlands 34 + 35 = 69 / 16 = 4.3
Japan 500 + 0 = 500 / 127 = 3.93
South Korea 60 + 13 = 73 / 23 = 3.1
Germany 27 + 130 = 157 / 82 = 1.9
France 66 + 49 = 115 / 60 = 1.9
Italy 95 + 20 = 115 / 58 = 1.9
US 424 + 120 = 544 / 293 = 1.9
Spain 68 + 0 = 68 / 40 = 1.7
China 60 + 2 = 62 /1300 = 0.05


I used numbers in the link above as well as those on the CBC website, which appears to be more recent:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/asia_ear...ke/numbers.html

Anyway, I'm not making this list to condemn any country over their level of donations--mainly, I was curious to see how Canada compared. Definitely nothing to be ashamed of. It demonstrates how such small amounts add up so quickly: donations don't have to be in the form of a few rich people putting in hundreds of thousands. Even if every individual just puts in a few dollars, it adds up to a huge amount.


edit: I just put in a 0 for public donations when I didn't have data. Likely they aren't really at zero.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Jan 4 2005, 04:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Jan 4 2005, 04:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Jan 4 2005, 11:22 PM
Bam, Iran doesn't have that "paradise" thing going for it and even worse, who had ever heard of it? Not me and not most people. Everyone has at least heard of India and some of the other countries.

You never heard of Iran before last year's earthquake there? Call me surprised, I thought many more people would know of Iran than Indonesia or Sri Lanka, parallel disasters aside. [/b][/quote]
What I meant was I'd never heard of that specific town in Iran. I'd heard of the country.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by nfotiu+Jan 4 2005, 10:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nfotiu @ Jan 4 2005, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MarchHare@Jan 4 2005, 10:12 PM
Ah, but to put things into perspective, take a look at this graph: http://members.arstechnica.com/x/hux/tsunami_relief.gif

Compared to other first-world nations, Americans have been somewhat stingy.

And also realize that US citizens donated over ten times as much in the wake of September 11th, an event that -- while incredibly tragic -- pales in comparison to the utter devastation in SE Asia now.

Between 200 million in private donations and the US governments 350 million dollar pledge, the number is more like 550 million, almost 5 times the 120 million referenced in that chart. [/b][/quote]
Don't want to freak anyone out, but according to Bill O'Reilly (yipes), the USA total contributions, government and private, is over $1 billion now.

And, he says, that's just over and above the expense that goes along with protecting everyone in the world.

Cowperson

[HOZ]

The problem now isn't going to be solved with money. The Americans have done more with their Aircraft carrier than all the money the Swedes will do.

Problem now:


1) Clean water delivery
2) Food delivery
3) Medication delivery
All of which the American are again doing the heavy lifting
4) Dead body disposal(Sorry to say you don't need money to do this...just alot of hands)

To say the least Japan was there with Aegis Destroyers in hours and rescue/medical relief teams in days. Australians in there with rescue/medical relief teams within hours and days. Americans were there with an Aircraft carrier, landing craft and thousaands of soldiers with in days

Canada: DART'ing in after a week. Which country will the Libs beg to airlift our DART'ing relief effort? Hmm? And there is STILL SOME PEOPLE TRASHING THE AMERICANS HERE :angry:

Just an aside: Lets say our DART team is off in Indonesia (or where ever) and this trememndous quake signals further tetonic shifts closer to home. Who the hell will be saving Vancouver? My guess it will be those "Stingy" Aircraft carrier guys

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by HOZ@Jan 5 2005, 01:25 AM
Canada: DART'ing in after a week. Which country will the Libs beg to airlift our DART'ing relief effort? Hmm? And there is STILL SOME PEOPLE TRASHING THE AMERICANS HERE :angry:

Can you believe it? People trashing Americans? They've obviously rectified every issue and concern with their actions through this relief effort. Anyone who thinks the US efforts around the world are anything less than saintly is obviously of a demented political philosophy.

[Table 5]

I read today that Sandra Bullock donated $1 Million to the relief fund....she also donated a $1 Million after 9/11. Very admirable of her.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Jan 5 2005, 01:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Jan 5 2005, 01:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-HOZ@Jan 5 2005, 01:25 AM
Canada: DART'ing in after a week. Which country will the Libs beg to airlift our DART'ing relief effort? Hmm? And there is STILL SOME PEOPLE TRASHING THE AMERICANS HERE# :angry:

Can you believe it? People trashing Americans? They've obviously rectified every issue and concern with their actions through this relief effort. Anyone who thinks the US efforts around the world are anything less than saintly is obviously of a demented political philosophy.

[/b][/quote]
Unbelievable.

You have to be severely jaded/ Anti-American to believe the American effort or my comment has anything to do with politics. And especially, to criticise the American effort so far. Considering how our government has responded I don't think any Canadian should be firing any criticism their way.

Some Canadians are so pathetic they'll criticise anything American. No matter how honest and altruistic. Shame! :boh:

[InTheSlot]

To be fair, America(ns) has/have donated lots of things besides just money. They've send troops over there on aircraft-carriers loaded with bulldozers, cranes, and dump trucks.

They've sent planes with first-aid kits and MREs (Meals Ready to Eat), as well as blankets, pillows, bottled water, and what have you.


So, to say that we're stingy, that kinda p*sses me off. :angry:

[Sammie]

Besides all the money the Americans have an aircraft carrier, 12,000 troops, and countless helicopters on the scene. Where are the rich Moslem countries?

[BlackArcher101]

While on the topic of donations, can someone tell me how on earth it costs $20 million just to send the DART team, which removes $20 million from our donation total?

I heard that on cbc yesterday and I can't even think of why it would cost so much.