The young and their workplace cockiness

[Cowperson]

National Post with an ongoing series of stories on the following with a link to today's segment:

Brought up with more technological savvy and more opportunities than any previous generation, today's teens and 20-somethings aren't afraid of anything. In Part II, why young people entering the workforce aren't asking what they can do for a company, but what the company can do for them.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...ef-8c875d5efcbb

Cowperson

[Bill Bumface]

They have seen how their parents have fared with killer hours, limited financial rewards and the crushing toll on health and family, and are not easily swayed by the promise of promotion, says Ms. Duxbury, a professor at Carleton University's business school.

Very true, coming up in a time of outsourcing and creating more "shareholder value" off of the backs of employees, the perspective for young office workers is deffinately different than our parents.

"They've been told all their lives that they can do anything. They have come to adulthood at a time when their technological savviness is valued and has allowed them to beat their parents from the time they were young. When you're eight years old and you program the VCR for your parents, that gives you a certain view of yourself and your abilities with regards to your superiors.

In technical feilds, this deffinately leads to cockiness in alot of people. When you have to show your boss how to do parts of his job, it might go to your head depending on what type of person you are.

[Table 5]

seems only logical. With increasing integration between life and work, why shouldn't people desire employment that fits their lifestyle? The age of going to work 9 to 5, and then forgetting about it for the rest of your day is long gone.

[Cheese]

This is a generation that doesn't fear failure at work, doesn't fear lack of promotion, doesn't even really fear unemployment, says Linda Duxbury, one of Canada's leading workplace researchers. She calls this group "the show-me-what-you-can-do-for-me generation" on the job.

Well that paragraph is a bit of an overstatement in my eyes. In fact I find quite the opposite with many of the new or soon to graduate Engineers. Most are hopelessly fearful, fearful that another of the thousands of graduates will come along and steal their job, or do better than they will. They fear making any kind of mistake to the point some are almost rigid and incapable of making a decision.
In fact, technology not withstanding, I dont think many of todays young and bright minds are any more capable than those of the past, and in fact has far more fears than those in the past.

[JiriHrdina]

I have worked with a number of new graduates over the years. My experience has been that there isn't much cockiness at all initially. In fact most are very scared of getting fired/laid off or stuck on a go nowhere job. I would suggest though that after about 2 years some cockiness does tend to creep in. Its a fine line though between having a confident employee who understands their own value vs someone that thinks "its all about them".

[Frank the Tank]

I get a lot of "new graduate cockiness" in my feild. I love to sit down with them and take their fancy little pretty looking brochure/poster/business card/packaging and systematically pick it to bits. I've had meetings where I've literally stood in front of people for 15 minutes and said "This won't print because....., we don't use this Illustrator feature because........yada yada yada".

The cockiness vanishes rather quickly I've discovered.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I also dealt a lot with new grads coming out of University. I've found an increasing expectation of "everything, now!" from them. Seems that they don't see the need to work hard and put in your time to get the experience and knowledge that you need to succeed in business. It's almost as if they expect an executive level position right out of school based on their "knowledge" from school. "Entry level work? Pfft. Not for me." seems to be the rallying cry from many of them. I hate to say it but a certain group of grads from the Haskayne School of Business seems to be especially bad for this (and I say this as alumni). Then again, I think it's also a matter of companies not being truthful during the recruiting process.

[Ozy_Flame]

Haskayne School of Business students are notorious for this. I know - I'm in that faculty. No matter how hard they beat the concept of "what can I do for the company" into us, there are those that strut around demanding the employer to beg at their feet for his/her services. Many Alumni and Co-op students are guilty of this. I think it's embarassing. Some of these people will not do the entry-level program at their first company because they think they are worth more than that; they demand high compensation, a plethora of benefits, and a work schedule that best fits their needs.

To all Haskayne idiots like this out there: sorry ladies, pay your dues like everyone else and bite the bullet working your way up the ladder. Despite what whacked-out misconceptions you may have in your heads, there is no elevator to the top.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Jan 31 2005, 09:05 PM
I have worked with a number of new graduates over the years. My experience has been that there isn't much cockiness at all initially. In fact most are very scared of getting fired/laid off or stuck on a go nowhere job. I would suggest though that after about 2 years some cockiness does tend to creep in. Its a fine line though between having a confident employee who understands their own value vs someone that thinks "its all about them".

This has been the experience that I've noted with those arround me, moreso than the 'cocky' attitude. Most of my friends are glad to have their jobs, desperate to keep them, and work their asses off.

Maybe some of you guys just hit a bad batch? Also, I'm not sure I'd ever hire a business student... even for business, unless they've got indispensible technical skills. They don't seem to 'round' out the Haskayne education a whole lot.

They do dress well though.

[Mr. Ski]

Been there done that too (B.Comm. 2000). I think the thing that stands out most is the "Annual Salary Survey" that they publish. I answered honestly when they called me after graduation, but my guess is that a lot of people don't.

Having had a near 4.0 GPA myself in third and fourth year, and knowing what I started for myself in a pretty damn good job after receiving several good offers, there is little chance that those figures are correct.

They set a lot of people up for unreasonable expectations.

You want to earn $60,000+.... pay your dues for a for a few years and prove yourself.

[calf]

Originally posted by Ozy_Flame@Jan 31 2005, 04:06 PM
Haskayne School of Business students are notorious for this. I know - I'm in that faculty. No matter how hard they beat the concept of "what can I do for the company" into us, there are those that strut around demanding the employer to beg at their feet for his/her services. Many Alumni and Co-op students are guilty of this. I think it's embarassing. Some of these people will not do the entry-level program at their first company because they think they are worth more than that; they demand high compensation, a plethora of benefits, and a work schedule that best fits their needs.

To all Haskayne idiots like this out there: sorry ladies, pay your dues like everyone else and bite the bullet working your way up the ladder. Despite what whacked-out misconceptions you may have in your heads, there is no elevator to the top.

Haskayne students? Cocky? noooooooooooooo.

I agree though - it's way too prevelant and is one of my pet peves, especially talking to buddies close to graduation (I only want IBanking, Oil&Gas, Xdays off, Xpay, Xhours, Xbenefits).

Hey Ozy/IHH/MrSki/etc, which concentrations do you find are particularily cocky? For me it's mostly the MKTG & FNCE types. I think us accounting types right now are a tad better because it's engrained that we start at the bottom no matter what, and kinda know the hard work that's required to get up there...but I'm biased, and you may see things differently B)

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by calf+Jan 31 2005, 08:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calf @ Jan 31 2005, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Ozy_Flame@Jan 31 2005, 04:06 PM
Haskayne School of Business students are notorious for this. I know - I'm in that faculty. No matter how hard they beat the concept of "what can I do for the company" into us, there are those that strut around demanding the employer to beg at their feet for his/her services. Many Alumni and Co-op students are guilty of this. I think it's embarassing. Some of these people will not do the entry-level program at their first company because they think they are worth more than that; they demand high compensation, a plethora of benefits, and a work schedule that best fits their needs.

To all Haskayne idiots like this out there: sorry ladies, pay your dues like everyone else and bite the bullet working your way up the ladder. Despite what whacked-out misconceptions you may have in your heads, there is no elevator to the top.

Haskayne students? Cocky? noooooooooooooo.

I agree though - it's way too prevelant and is one of my pet peves, especially talking to buddies close to graduation (I only want IBanking, Oil&Gas, Xdays off, Xpay, Xhours, Xbenefits).

Hey Ozy/IHH/MrSki/etc, which concentrations do you find are particularily cocky? For me it's mostly the MKTG & FNCE types. I think us accounting types right now are a tad better because it's engrained that we start at the bottom no matter what, and kinda know the hard work that's required to get up there...but I'm biased, and you may see things differently B) [/b][/quote]
No I think your comments are actually very true. Part of the reason is that in accounting there is (typically) a very defined career path. You pay your dues, you move up the ladder.

I went to U of C as well & graduated w/ a commerce degree (this was before it was called the Haskayne school but not too long ago). They really build your ego up and then you get out in the real world get slapped around. I had pretty realistic expectations coming out but a lot of my class mates didn't and got a huge wake up call.

[Clarkey]

Originally posted by I-Hate-Hulse@Jan 31 2005, 10:43 PM
I hate to say it but a certain group of grads from the Haskayne School of Business seems to be especially bad for this (and I say this as alumni).

Which group, I'm curious?

[peter12]

I have heard the same from a few HR types when I have been job searching.

[Cowboy]

I have heard the same. I am a young Grad in the workforce and I believe that many out of UofC don't seem to get it. It is always good for a conversation with some of the others that do get it. I know one girl who complained that she had to get up at 8:00 for a breakfast meeting and when the manager found out her and her friends were complaining she used the excuse " I am not a breakfast person" .....Oh my

[Frank the Tank]

For all of the youngins reading this thread, I just have to say one thing; a little humility now will go a looooong way later. Shut up, listen, observe, pay your dues and you will be rewarded one day when you deserve it.

Or be obnoxious and demand everything because, yes, the world really does owe you!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by hulkrogan@Jan 31 2005, 12:46 PM

In technical feilds, this deffinately leads to cockiness in alot of people. When you have to show your boss how to do parts of his job, it might go to your head depending on what type of person you are.

I don't know but I would guess the "kids are better with technology" thing goes back to the days of the first cave-teen putting a long stick in the fire and then waved it around to a chorus of "ooooohs" and "gruuuuuuunts" from the other cave-folk.

My dad can't figure out the the DVD player, my grandpa couldn't tune the hi-fi, his dad never got the hang of the motorized carriage and his dad before him would only plow a mere furlong of turnips a day, lest he wear the poor beast out.

[300spartans]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Jan 31 2005, 09:03 PM

My dad can't figure out the the DVD player, my grandpa couldn't tune the hi-fi, his dad never got the hang of the motorized carriage and his dad before him would only plow a mere furlong of turnips a day, lest he wear the poor beast out.

brilliant, and bonus points for using lest

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by calf+Jan 31 2005, 08:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calf @ Jan 31 2005, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Hey Ozy/IHH/MrSki/etc, which concentrations do you find are particularily cocky? For me it's mostly the MKTG & FNCE types. I think us accounting types right now are a tad better because it's engrained that we start at the bottom no matter what, and kinda know the hard work that's required to get up there...but I'm biased, and you may see things differently B)[/b]

Well for sure, the IBanking crowd and the management consulting types were big ego'ed when I was there. Typically those are high achievers (not always though) so I don't necessarily fault them. I knew several people from that crowd in my year and yes, they have gone on to be relatively successful from a career point of view.

You're right, I think ACCT types are slightly more humble given the paltry starting CA salaries (although mine was far lower than it is now!). However I can attest from 1st hand experience that ACCT types (from all Universities, not just HSB) are just as bad. It absolutely drove me nuts when I heard 1st year articling students in our office whine about:

1) How "little" money they made.
2) Having to work so hard and long.
3) Doing "menial" work as a 1st year. (someone's got to do it...stop and think why you might be doing it....)

All not realizing that you were getting paid in training and experience, thus increasing your future salary!! Instead they chose to focus on "Gimme, Now!!!"

FNCE types I think it depends.... that's an unusual concentration given the disparity between the best jobs and the lowest jobs for graduates. For sure, the i-banking crowd has by far the highest paying graduating salary. But those jobs are far and few between. Most of the grads in FNCE get brough back down to earth in a hurry once they see what entry level finance is like. Bank of Montreal Mgmt Trainee is not as glam as it might sound.....

There was a great story about Bay Street law firms a couple years ago. I guess summer students at law firms used to be pandered to and were basically given easy work and hours during the summer. Problem is, once they started full time work they were shocked at how hard and long lawyers actually worked. One firm decided not to go easy on em and hit em full force with the intention of giving people an accurate experience of practicing law. Worked great, as they warned people in advance that they were going to get the "real deal". Students loved it and I think they did well in recruiting that year.

Which goes back to what I was saying earlier. If companies were a little more realistic with recruits vs pandering to them just to get them to sign, discontent and egos would be a hell of a lot lesser in the future.


<!--QuoteBegin-Clarke@Jan 31 2005, 10:43 PM
Which group, I'm curious?[/quote]

There wasn't one particular group like ACCT or anything, just individuals within that group. Individuals that I seemed to get stuck with!

[Ozy_Flame]

It's the Finance and PLM students I find most arrogant in what they demand from employers. Hell, look at those CPMT clowns - Cocky bas**rds at school, full of hot-sh!t outside of it. If any of you are of this elite group, I'm sorry you have to hear this, but it's true. I wish they'd do everyone a favor and come back down to Earth.

I myself am an HROD major. In all honesty I didn't go another route because I'm both too lazy to crunch numbers, and not really interested in anything else. I pretty much got turned off from all other management majors because of the type of people I've met in them, and HROD students and teachers just seemed to have a more grounded approach to reality; like they were not into the whole competitive rat-race the rest of the department had going on. I made that choice and haven't looked back - best major I think I could have done (or, at least finishing now).