Answers sought after man dies in Winnipeg hospital waiting room

[Dion]

WINNIPEG -- A head official at this city's Health Sciences Centre said Monday workers were shocked by the revelation a man sat in the hospital's waiting room for 34 hours without medical help before dying there.

Brock Wright, the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority's chief medical officer and Health Sciences Centre chief operating officer, confirmed Monday that the 45-year-old man was reportedly dropped off by vehicle at the hospital around 3 p.m. local time Friday - before he was found dead in the ER Sunday after midnight.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/can...html?id=821249

[BlackArcher101]

Well, if I went to an emergency room anywhere in Alberta and didn't check in to the triage desk, I too would never be seen. Sounds like the case here unfortunately.

The last line sums everything up.

He admitted there are no policies that specifically dictate triage nurses should approach all people in the waiting room about why they're there.

If there were no visible signs of distress and he didn't check in... can we blame the hospital in this case? Do we start requiring everyone coming through the door to state their purpose of visitation? Emergency rooms always have family and/or friends present as well.

[burn_this_city]

Apparently he never approached the triage nurse so no one knew he was there waiting to be seen.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Well, if I went to an emergency room anywhere in Alberta and didn't check in to the triage desk, I too would never be seen. Sounds like the case here unfortunately.

The last line sums everything up.

If there were no visible signs of distress and he didn't check in... can we blame the hospital in this case? Do we start requiring everyone coming through the door to state their purpose of visitation? Emergency rooms always have family and/or friends present as well.

They said on the news that he was a frequent visitor to the ER. You'd think they'd have someone checking out the people in the room to see if they are okay and if they need help. 36 hours and nobody notices him? Find that hard to believe. Knowing he was a regular they probably ignored him.

Of course the hospital and staff will not be found at fault. Still it's sad that someone has to die before any possibles changes are looked at or implimented.

[OilersBaby]

I think its just good customer service (and yes, working at the ER is customer service) to ask on people if you notice they are waiting. I know lots of friends and family are present in waiting rooms but you think that the receptionists/nurses that would notice a man that has been waiting there their ENTIRE shift and just ask the poor man what's going on!?!?!? He probably felt too sick to check in.....

I hate the ERs everywhere. I know they are supposed to help but my poor dad was there for like 10-12 hours and he's a cancer patient who is suffering because his lungs were filled with fluid adn he kept collapsing because he couldn't breath.....yet they still take that long. So frustrating!

Sorry thats my venting for the day......

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

I think its just good customer service (and yes, working at the ER is customer service) to ask on people if you notice they are waiting. I know lots of friends and family are present in waiting rooms but you think that the receptionists/nurses that would notice a man that has been waiting there their ENTIRE shift and just ask the poor man what's going on!?!?!? He probably felt too sick to check in.....

I hate the ERs everywhere. I know they are supposed to help but my poor dad was there for like 10-12 hours and he's a cancer patient who is suffering because his lungs were filled with fluid adn he kept collapsing because he couldn't breath.....yet they still take that long. So frustrating!

Sorry thats my venting for the day......

Sadly alot of degenerates just want some shelter and will camp out for hours in the waiting room, especially the frequent flyer variety. They're often cold/drunk/high or whatever and just need a safe place to lounge around in. They don't actually need acute medical care, and are thus often tolerated (ie. left alone) by the hospital staff, as long as they arent disruptive or being a nuissance.

You couple that, with the fact that most hospital staff are 8 hour shift workers, and its no surprise that one of these guys was able to fester in the waiting room for so long without being attended to.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Well, if I went to an emergency room anywhere in Alberta and didn't check in to the triage desk, I too would never be seen. Sounds like the case here unfortunately.

The last line sums everything up.

If there were no visible signs of distress and he didn't check in... can we blame the hospital in this case? Do we start requiring everyone coming through the door to state their purpose of visitation? Emergency rooms always have family and/or friends present as well.

I think in the current set up, you are probably right, pointing fingers is not really going to help and there might not even be a purpose to.

However, maybe incidents like this (as we all know there have been more than this one) show that we should have an employee or system of some sort that looks out for cases and people like this? How hard would it be to set up one person whose job it is to attend to people in the waiting room and check out for serious signs of deterioration? Nothing super serious or in depth, we don't want a reason to run this person off their feet. But someone who could be aware of emergencies that can't make it to the triage.

Just an idea, I know it's a complicated issue.

[OilersBaby]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

You couple that, with the fact that most hospital staff are 8 hour shift workers, and its no surprise that one of these guys was able to fester in the waiting room for so long without being attended to.

Yeah my point exactly - he was there for 30 something hours. If I noticed that the same man wsa there when I left as when I entered, I would at least ask what's going on.........or if he needed anything.....or if he was being helped. He sat there and Im sure some of the staff had 2 shifts that they went through (ie they came in twice during 2 different shifts) while he was waiting.

Sucks big time. The US isn't the only one with health care issues. Sure in Canada everyone is entitled to health care but what's the point if you die while waiting for it?

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

Yeah my point exactly - he was there for 30 something hours. If I noticed that the same man wsa there when I left as when I entered, I would at least ask what's going on.........or if he needed anything.....or if he was being helped. He sat there and Im sure some of the staff had 2 shifts that they went through (ie they came in twice during 2 different shifts) while he was waiting.

That's probably what eventually happend, but literally hundreds of people will pass through the waiting room per shift, so it'd be tough to specifically remember one guy and the fact he hadn't moved. Even if you did, you might have just assumed he'd gotten up and left during the interval, and then just came back to his "home" on your second shift.

If someone cries wolf too many times and abuses the purpose of a waiting room, I'm not surprised they got complacent. This sort of scenario isnt going to happen to normal people.

Cue the Vince Motta sympathizers...

[Dion]

Death was preventable for a Winnipeg man found after more than 34 hours in the waiting room of a major hospital's emergency department, the province's chief medical examiner said Wednesday.

Brian Sinclair had a catheter for a bladder problem. The catheter was blocked, so he hadn't been able to urinate for 24 hours and his bladder was full, said Dr. Thambirajah Balachandra.

He died of a resulting infection.

Balachandra called the death over the weekend "entirely preventable," saying the infection could have been addressed with antibiotics. Sinclair had been treated in hospital in March for the same condition, he said.

Balachandra has called an inquest and he expects it to begin almost immediately.

In response to Sinclair's death, the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority has issued a directive requiring clinics that send people to the emergency department to follow up by phone.

Manitoba Health has asked emergency department staff to ensure every person in the waiting room is spoken to, to determine whether they have been registered.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...air-death.html

[evman150]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

Sucks big time. The US isn't the only one with health care issues. Sure in Canada everyone is entitled to health care but what's the point if you die while waiting for it?

Oh come on now. What a brutal straw man. You can do better than that.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Dion

Brian Sinclair had a catheter for a bladder problem. The catheter was blocked, so he hadn't been able to urinate for 24 hours and his bladder was full, said Dr. Thambirajah Balachandra....


..... In response to Sinclair's death, the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority has issued a directive requiring clinics that send people to the emergency department to follow up by phone.

Why couldn't the clinic have flushed the catheter and ordered antibiotics?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Why couldn't the clinic have flushed the catheter and ordered antibiotics?

Maybe the clinic felt his case was urgent enough that an ER might get him faster treatment. Still it puzzles me why the clinic sent him by cab to the ER and no one notified the hospital he was coming. A simple phone call might have saved the guys life.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

Sucks big time. The US isn't the only one with health care issues. Sure in Canada everyone is entitled to health care but what's the point if you die while waiting for it?

This post sounds very defensive, are you by chance American? It sounds like you're grasping at straws a little bit here, despite our wait times, Canada is nowhere near the States in terms of health care problems. Also,this unfortunite incident is not a good example to say "Sure in Canada everyone is entitled to health care but what's the point if you die while waiting for it?" It was a mistake. If the patient had checked in, and then was left knowingly in the waiting room, then passed away, then it would be an example you could use.

You're trying to make it sound like this is an example of how bad our health care is, that it's gotten to the point where patients die waiting for help. I completely disagree, and believe that this is an unfortunite case of poor comunication/oversight, call it what you will, but it was not due to major overcrowding or lack of resources. I know one could make the argument that more staff would have solved this particular case, but it's a case of having maybe one person in charge of walking around the ER looking at each person periodically, it's not like throwing billions of dollars at health and reinventing the health care system as we know it would have changed this outcome. It was one isolated, unfortunite circumstance, nothing more imo.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Daradon

However, maybe incidents like this (as we all know there have been more than this one) show that we should have an employee or system of some sort that looks out for cases and people like this? How hard would it be to set up one person whose job it is to attend to people in the waiting room and check out for serious signs of deterioration?

They use to have this job open to volunteers at Foothills Hospital, I know that. I use to volunteer there during HS working in the ER, just making sure everyone was ok, bringing them water or a tissue or whatever and helping keep kids entertained and whatever a (generally) untrained staffer could do.

It would be pretty easy to find some volunteers to help tend ER and check out any serious signs... pre-med students.

[OilersBaby]

Originally Posted by flameswin

This post sounds very defensive, are you by chance American? It sounds like you're grasping at straws a little bit here, despite our wait times, Canada is nowhere near the States in terms of health care problems. Also,this unfortunite incident is not a good example to say "Sure in Canada everyone is entitled to health care but what's the point if you die while waiting for it?" It was a mistake. If the patient had checked in, and then was left knowingly in the waiting room, then passed away, then it would be an example you could use.

You're trying to make it sound like this is an example of how bad our health care is, that it's gotten to the point where patients die waiting for help. I completely disagree, and believe that this is an unfortunite case of poor comunication/oversight, call it what you will, but it was not due to major overcrowding or lack of resources. I know one could make the argument that more staff would have solved this particular case, but it's a case of having maybe one person in charge of walking around the ER looking at each person periodically, it's not like throwing billions of dollars at health and reinventing the health care system as we know it would have changed this outcome. It was one isolated, unfortunite circumstance, nothing more imo.

I was born and raised in Canada until I was 22 and since then I have lived in the USA. I am 30 years old now. Yes it's expensive here in the USA but as a college educated woman (whew, my degree is actually good for something) who's had a full time job with benefits since she's graduated university, I've never had issues with health care here. I know there are hundreds of thousands of people suffering here in the USA because of the cost, but I have been lucky in that my employer pays all of my costs. I am married and my husband also has his employer pay for it and by us each having dual coverage, we dont have to pay anything for copays or pharmacy either.

And I guess right now I am frustrated with the Canadian system because of the loooooong wait times. My dad first went to his PCP in January and took until April to get diagnosed with cancer. He went through lots of blood tests, CT scans, MRI's, a bronchoscopy, and some other stuff I prolly am forgetting but considering how fast small cell lung cancer spreads..why did it take SO long to get appointments for tests to diagnose it?????? I thought I had a lump in my armpit a few years ago and even though Kaiser is crappy in California, I got an appt for a CT scan the very same day (2 hours after my initial appt). My dad had to wait upto a couple weeks in between tests.

So yeah thats why Im frustrated with the system....and to hear that a man died because no one checked on him. Poor dude. Mistakes are okay but when it causes life and death? They should be sued for negligence to make sure it doesnt happen again (not for the money because that doesnt replace the man, but just so they dont ever make that mistake of asking).

[Jayems]

Hobos and homeless are notorious for abusing the hospital system. It's no big surprise that a guy in a busy ER wasn't checked on, especially if he's known.

"Oh, there's Billy Bob, passed out in the waiting room again. At least he's sleeping and not peeing on the floor or causing a disturbance."

It's really too bad he died, however.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Jayems

Hobos and homeless are notorious for abusing the hospital system. It's no big surprise that a guy in a busy ER wasn't checked on, especially if he's known.

"Oh, there's Billy Bob, passed out in the waiting room again. At least he's sleeping and not peeing on the floor or causing a disturbance."

It's really too bad he died, however.

Problem here is that he wasn't abusing the system. He went to his GP at that clinic complaining he couldn't urinate due to problems with the catheter the hospital put in. He had no legs and was in a wheel chair so they put him in a taxi with a note from his GP. Surely someone could have read his note his GP sent with him.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by OilersBaby

So yeah thats why Im frustrated with the system....and to hear that a man died because no one checked on him. Poor dude. Mistakes are okay but when it causes life and death? They should be sued for negligence to make sure it doesnt happen again (not for the money because that doesnt replace the man, but just so they dont ever make that mistake of asking).

While I feel sorry all around for the situation, how exactly will suing help prevent this from happening again and also who was the negligent party here?

I don't like the long wait times either, but in the end I can't complain because when I went through triage I was deemed to be less important than others, and that I'm fine with. I ended up waiting in the ER for 7 hours with both of my arms frozen in position and a tingly feeling in my entire body. Pretty scary at the time, but they recognized the symptoms as non life threatening.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Dion

Problem here is that he wasn't abusing the system. He went to his GP at that clinic complaining he couldn't urinate due to problems with the catheter the hospital put in. He had no legs and was in a wheel chair so they put him in a taxi with a note from his GP. Surely someone could have read his note his GP sent with him.

Yes, someone could have... but didn't because it probably wasn't presented to them. How did this guy get to the clinic in the first place and how did he explain to the GP his problem? If he did it then, how come he couldn't when he arrived at the hospital? Not sure if that has been answered before or not... it just doesn't make sense to me. To blame the ER staff for not doing this or that... things that aren't standard practice in the first place... well... that's grasping for someone to blame which is becoming more common in today's society. Can't we just chalk this up to an accidental death instead of saying someone or a group of people are at fault?