Pakistan and the other nations that have banded together in the Organization of the Islamic Conference have been leading a remarkably successful campaign through the United Nations to enshrine in international law prohibitions against "defamation of religions," particularly Islam. Their aim is to empower governments around the world to punish anyone who commits the "heinous act" of defaming Islam. Critics say it is an attempt to globalize laws against blasphemy that exist in some Muslim countries — and that the movement has already succeeded in suppressing open discussion in international forums of issues such as female genital mutilation, honour killings and gay rights.
Religion and State should always be separated. This is getting ridiculous and becoming a huge problem in our world. I respect that people are allowed to believe what they believe but at the same right they most certainly can't tell me what I can and can't say about anything.
Another good reason to withdrawl from the UN. The best we could hope for is the sum total of the values(good and bad) of all the countries represented. Bad company corrupts good character.
Pakistan and the other nations that have banded together in the Organization of the Islamic Conference have been leading a remarkably successful campaign through the United Nations to enshrine in international law prohibitions against "defamation of religions," particularly Islam. Their aim is to empower governments around the world to punish anyone who commits the "heinous act" of defaming Islam. Critics say it is an attempt to globalize laws against blasphemy that exist in some Muslim countries — and that the movement has already succeeded in suppressing open discussion in international forums of issues such as female genital mutilation, honour killings and gay rights.
Religion has up until the last century received a free pass on criticism and to this day still is often given a pass on criticism because its deemed bad taste or rude to criticize it.
Not only should we fight against the Islamic push both intellectually and in other ways, but to all who propose special laws to protect religion from the criticism it fully deserves due to the behavior of their followers.
Islam is in my opinion one of the biggest threats to modern society and the future survival of our species, but also the increasing religious fervor in other religions.
People think if we keep ignoring this stuff it will solve itself, just look at the nonsense here in Canada with free speech and Islam.
People no matter what faith, non faith, need to step up and keep these zealots from pushing their views on us.
Its a war of ideas, and we don't win by ignoring what is going on in the world.
Religion has up until the last century received a free pass on criticism and to this day still is often given a pass on criticism because its deemed bad taste or rude to criticize it.
Not only should we fight against the Islamic push both intellectually and in other ways, but to all who propose special laws to protect religion from the criticism it fully deserves due to the behavior of their followers.
Islam is in my opinion one of the biggest threats to modern society and the future survival of our species, but also the increasing religious fervor in other religions.
People think if we keep ignoring this stuff it will solve itself, just look at the nonsense here in Canada with free speech and Islam.
People no matter what faith, non faith, need to step up and keep these zealots from pushing their views on us.
Its a war of ideas, and we don't win by ignoring what is going on in the world.
Islam is not "one of the biggest threats to modern society" and it has absolutely no bearing on the "future survival of our species". This statement absolutely reeks of an ignorant ethno-centric perspective. There was a time when then Islamic world represented the most open and progressive society on Earth.
Now that I've ranted, I would agree with the underlying anger over these moves in the UN. This is right up there with hate speech legislation. It curbs free speech and open critical discussion in dangerous ways that any person in a democracy MUST fight against.
Religion is not a dangerous force. Fundamentalism and politicized religious groups is what people need to watch out for. I'm far, far more wary of the average American then I am of most Islamic people.
Last edited by llama64; 08-03-2008 at 12:42 PM.
Reason: clarity
Islam is not "one of the biggest threats to modern society" and it has absolutely no bearing on the "future survival of our species". This statement absolutely reeks of an ignorant white-centric perspective. There was a time when then Islamic world represented the most open and progressive society on Earth.
Now that I've ranted, I would agree with the underlying anger over these moves in the UN. This is right up there with hate speech legislation. It curbs free speech and open critical discussion in dangerous ways that any person in a democracy MUST fight against.
Gotta agree here. Islam, in its 'true' form isn't the problem. The idiots that misinterpret it are.
Quote:
Religion is not a dangerous force. Fundamentalism and politicized religious groups is what people need to watch out for.
Exactly.
Quote:
I'm far, far more wary of the average American then I am of most Islamic people.
And there you go ruining a good post.
Whats the difference between the average American, and the average Islamic?
Islam is not "one of the biggest threats to modern society" and it has absolutely no bearing on the "future survival of our species". This statement absolutely reeks of an ignorant ethno-centric perspective. There was a time when then Islamic world represented the most open and progressive society on Earth.
Now that I've ranted, I would agree with the underlying anger over these moves in the UN. This is right up there with hate speech legislation. It curbs free speech and open critical discussion in dangerous ways that any person in a democracy MUST fight against.
Religion is not a dangerous force. Fundamentalism and politicized religious groups is what people need to watch out for. I'm far, far more wary of the average American then I am of most Islamic people.
Islam, itself, is proving you wrong on a daily basis. I'm pretty easy on religion myself, but there is a distinct threat to Western values and freedom from the global radical Islamist movement.
There may be great difficulty in combating this threat except to battle the threat through our institutions. Case in point, the HRC which are being used as a tool to shut down private voices across this country.
They may be fundamentalists but there has been little or no action from moderate Muslims to combat the radical threats within their own communities.
Religion has up until the last century received a free pass on criticism and to this day still is often given a pass on criticism because its deemed bad taste or rude to criticize it.
Not only should we fight against the Islamic push both intellectually and in other ways, but to all who propose special laws to protect religion from the criticism it fully deserves due to the behavior of their followers.
Islam is in my opinion one of the biggest threats to modern society and the future survival of our species, but also the increasing religious fervor in other religions.
People think if we keep ignoring this stuff it will solve itself, just look at the nonsense here in Canada with free speech and Islam.
People no matter what faith, non faith, need to step up and keep these zealots from pushing their views on us.
Its a war of ideas, and we don't win by ignoring what is going on in the world.
I agree, it is one of the biggest threats along with socialism, collectivism, political corectness, anti-globalism, positive discrimination, environmentalism, feminism and "humanrightism."
I am affraid western society is pretty much screwed already, and it has only itself to blame.
I agree, it is one of the biggest threats along with socialism, collectivism, political corectness, anti-globalism, positive discrimination, environmentalism, feminism and "humanrightism."
I am affraid western society is pretty much screwed already, and it has only itself to blame.
Being a quasi-libertarian myself, I find this post to be unspeakably horrible.
Although, I agree with the spirit of most of the sentiments, libertarianism has to break itself out of Ayn Rand pessimism and start presenting solutions to society instead of criticizing it.
I would love to hear exactly what/who is an "average American" and why exactly you would be "wary" of this person?
I know. What an amazing statement. There is a great war going on between Christopher Hitchens and Noam Chomsky over this ridiculous comparison. The absolutely moral relativism of comparing the average American citizen to an Al-Queda support is so ludicrous.
They may be fundamentalists but there has been little or no action from moderate Muslims to combat the radical threats within their own communities.
Exactly.
The problem is though that the radical Islamics probably issue death threats to anyone that opposes them. Especially the moderate or progressive Muslims.
Being a quasi-libertarian myself, I find this post to be unspeakably horrible.
Although, I agree with the spirit of most of the sentiments, libertarianism has to break itself out of Ayn Rand pessimism and start presenting solutions to society instead of criticizing it.
Ayn was not a libertarian, she was an objectivist, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
Where are the Friedmans and Hayeks of today?
...and Mises' and Rothbards....
No, this is era of prophets like Al Gore, Barack Obama, Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, Bono, Bob Gendolf, Jose Manuel Barosso or Naomi Klein.
Last edited by Flame Of Liberty; 08-03-2008 at 01:22 PM.
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
I know. What an amazing statement. There is a great war going on between Christopher Hitchens and Noam Chomsky over this ridiculous comparison. The absolutely moral relativism of comparing the average American citizen to an Al-Queda support is so ludicrous.
It's bizarre.
I live amongst hundreds of thousands of "average Americans"....and I can quite confidently say that I am "wary" of none of them because they are....American.
Sure i see guys that I would kkep a tighter eye on than others...but isnt every principality in every country the exact same?
or are ALL islamists completely trustable/the same....not needing scrutiny on an individual basis?
Wow....strange thing to imply, and even odder thing to even try and wrap my head around. Knowing Chomsky i on the side of the anti-American slant, I can fully trust that being on the other side (didnt even realize there WERE sides to such a ridiculous notion til now) that i am 100% correct.
Ayn was not a libertarian, she was an objectivist, no?
...and Mises' and Rothbards....
No, this is era of prophets like Al Gore, Barack Obama, Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, Bono, Bob Gendolf, Jose Manuel Barosso or Naomi Klein.
I'd say Rand was about as hard an materialist libertarian that you could get.
I love liberty and freedom, but there has to be a more optimistic way of talking about it these days
It's true that this is an age of prophets, but there is a distinctive, yet subtle, backlash slowly occuring in my opinion. The thing with utopians is the their utopia never arrives, people start to get wise after awhile.
I'd say Rand was about as hard an materialist libertarian that you could get.
I love liberty and freedom, but there has to be a more optimistic way of talking about it these days
It's true that this is an age of prophets, but there is a distinctive, yet subtle, backlash slowly occuring in my opinion. The thing with utopians is the their utopia never arrives, people start to get wise after awhile.
Too many different utopias, and most of them compete for state power. The real libertarians are marginalized because they don't use coercion as a vehicle.
Too many different utopias, and most of them compete for state power. The real libertarians are marginalized because they don't use coercion as a vehicle.
Exactly. The political coalition with conservatives is the only way for libertarian ideas to actually have an impact upon society, but it's difficult. The conservative position on authority makes sense when conveyed in a communitarian sense. That is, true human fulfillment comes in the form of social involvement, but too often conservatives seek the state or over-empowered religion to meet their ends.
Whats the difference between the average American, and the average Islamic?
Perhaps not much, but I don't know much about the average Islamic so don't take my statement with too much seriousness. It's a personal observation and feeling. I truly am more worried about the average American then any other single group of people in the world.
American fundamentalists hold more political power in the world then any other fundamentalist group I know of. Not only that, the power that they could potentially wield has access to the world largest and most dangerous supply of nuclear arms.
A few zealots running around killing themselves and perhaps 100 other people is not something that worries me. The thought of a religious zealot making another nation glow in the dark simply for not beliving in the same interpretation of a 2000 year old text is something that I worry about.
Perhaps not much, but I don't know much about the average Islamic so don't take my statement with too much seriousness. It's a personal observation and feeling. I truly am more worried about the average American then any other single group of people in the world.
American fundamentalists hold more political power in the world then any other fundamentalist group I know of. Not only that, the power that they could potentially wield has access to the world largest and most dangerous supply of nuclear arms.
A few zealots running around killing themselves and perhaps 100 other people is not something that worries me. The thought of a religious zealot making another nation glow in the dark simply for not beliving in the same interpretation of a 2000 year old text is something that I worry about.
That's all I meant by it.
You're paranoid.
First of all, the average American isn't fundamental. Secondly, no President, including George W. Bush is stupid enough to start a nuclear war. Say what you want about him, but he isn't suicidal. You can leave that part to the average Islamic fundamentalist.
If anyone is going to make another nation glow in the dark for having a different religious belief, it'll be Iran. And the chances of THAT happening are slim to none.
Stiffling Free Speech Globally
