Gas prices causing Meals on Wheels to shut down

[flamesaresmokin]

Saw this on the news and am pretty shocked that a service like this is being forced to potentially close down because they cannot afford to fuel the vehicles any longer.

Reported on ctv news tonight that the program in BC (and possibly others across the country to follow) is on the verge of a shut down. Kind of makes you sick to think that services like this that are essential to many people lives are chopped due to the greed of the oil industry and the lack of action by our elected officials.

This is definitely the start of many services to go due to ever rising fuel costs.

[Bill Bumface]

People are starving because of the greed of the oil industry and lack of action by elected officials??

You do realize that businesses are in business to make money. If you don't like how much gas costs, don't pay for it.

As for greedy oil companies, they don't set the price of oil. They just produce it, and sell it for whatever the market dictates the going rate is.

If you have even a smidgen of hippy in you, you'll realize that higher oil prices are a great opportunity for many positive changes in the world. There will just be a lot of pain first, such as whats happening here.

[MelBridgeman]

Greedy Goverments....lots of tax on top of those gas prices...start there first.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

People are starving because of the greed of the oil industry and lack of action by elected officials??

You do realize that businesses are in business to make money. If you don't like how much gas costs, don't pay for it.

As for greedy oil companies, they don't set the price of oil. They just produce it, and sell it for whatever the market dictates the going rate is.

If you have even a smidgen of hippy in you, you'll realize that higher oil prices are a great opportunity for many positive changes in the world. There will just be a lot of pain first, such as whats happening here.

Meh, such a typical answer everyone gets from someone in the oil industry. How would you suppose someone stops paying for gas? Gee i'll just walk 25 k to work or bike 30 minutes to the nearest transit stop. Not an option in calgary...especially when its below zero more then half the year.

300 billion dollar profits is not what the market is dictating. Its taking an essential product for day to day life and inflating the cost to unprecidented levels across the globe. The only reason prices are so high is because the supply is being controlled by the oil companies (by not building refineries or increasing production) and its putting people out of business and forcing charitable services out of operation along the way.

If services like meals on wheels can't operate it makes you think whats next. Sure i'd like to see hydrogen cars and wind power take over anyway but do you actually think premiers like stelmach and co who are in many oil execs back pockets will really just allow this to all of a sudden happen? Doubtful.

I can complain about the cost for myself but when I see it affecting people like this that literally need the service to live its a little harder to take. If the government would remove even half of its gas taxes and force a moderate decline in prices it would most likely save these services or at the very least buy them a year or two of time.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Meh, such a typical answer everyone gets from someone in the oil industry. How would you suppose someone stops paying for gas? Gee i'll just walk 25 k to work or bike 30 minutes to the nearest transit stop. Not an option in calgary...especially when its below zero more then half the year.

300 billion dollar profits is not what the market is dictating. Its taking an essential product for day to day life and inflating the cost to unprecidented levels across the globe. The only reason prices are so high is because the supply is being controlled by the oil companies (by not building refineries or increasing production) and its putting people out of business and forcing charitable services out of operation along the way.

If services like meals on wheels can't operate it makes you think whats next. Sure i'd like to see hydrogen cars and wind power take over anyway but do you actually think premiers like stelmach and co who are in many oil execs back pockets will really just allow this to all of a sudden happen? Doubtful.

I can complain about the cost for myself but when I see it affecting people like this that literally need the service to live its a little harder to take. If the government would remove even half of its gas taxes and force a moderate decline in prices it would most likely save these services or at the very least buy them a year or two of time.

Individual companies don't have the ability to control prices.

[MelBridgeman]

Oil is traded on the commodities market, the price is not set by the Oil companies, they certainly benefit from it and so can you.

[HOOT]

Exxon made $1,300 a second in 2007. Thats a lot of money!

Personally I just think of it as life, the price of things go up and the rich just keep getting richer. Good for them, I will just not drive as much which is good for the planet.

IMO the local/provincial/federal government should give tax breaks off their gas costs to companies like meals on wheels. But it will never happen!

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

You do realize that businesses are in business to make money. If you don't like how much gas costs, don't pay for it.

Does anybody else get sick of hearing this? It's the default reply whenever anybody complains about the cost of anything around here.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Meh, such a typical answer everyone gets from someone in the oil industry. How would you suppose someone stops paying for gas? Gee i'll just walk 25 k to work or bike 30 minutes to the nearest transit stop. Not an option in calgary...especially when its below zero more then half the year.

Oh! The drama!

Get a grip! If you don't want to walk 25k, live closer to work. It's a pretty common reality in most parts of the world, just because you're in oil country doesn't make you special.
Below zero more than half the year? Are you north of 60?

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

300 billion dollar profits is not what the market is dictating. Its taking an essential product for day to day life and inflating the cost to unprecidented levels across the globe. The only reason prices are so high is because the supply is being controlled by the oil companies (by not building refineries or increasing production) and its putting people out of business and forcing charitable services out of operation along the way.

Essential product, eh? "Inflating" the prices? As though it's Alberta oil companies that are in cahoots and are holding the world hostage? Do you have any idea how oil prices are set? It has much more to do with speculators than with producers. Go ahead and hate the oil companies for pulling something out of the ground and laughing all the way to the bank because investors are driving up the prices. That's like hating farmers for the price of wheat when they have almost no control over what their product sells for.

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

If services like meals on wheels can't operate it makes you think whats next. Sure i'd like to see hydrogen cars and wind power take over anyway but do you actually think premiers like stelmach and co who are in many oil execs back pockets will really just allow this to all of a sudden happen? Doubtful.

So big bad Stelmach is the one behind the demise of Meals on Wheels, eh? And he's also holding back wind power and hydrogen cars. I don't know where to start on this one... Maybe I'll skip right to the fact that hydrogen cars would be much worse for global warming than carbon burning cars ever were. You want to see a real greenhouse effect, start pumping tonnes of water vapor into the atmosphere and sit back for the show.

As for not knowing "what's next", I'll tell you that any and all charities that don't receive ample support by the communities that they operate in are next. If it really pains you that Meals on Wheels is having difficulties staying afloat, donate or volunteer. Blaming it on the government is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

I can complain about the cost for myself but when I see it affecting people like this that literally need the service to live its a little harder to take. If the government would remove even half of its gas taxes and force a moderate decline in prices it would most likely save these services or at the very least buy them a year or two of time.

You can "complain about the cost for yourself". And I suspect that that is exactly what you're doing here. Trying to mask your complaint by involving a charity is weak. Sorry, dude... Your post is just terrible. You sound like an old NDPer that was too busy complaining to do his homework.

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Does anybody else get sick of hearing this? It's the default reply whenever anybody complains about the cost of anything around here.

People will stop saying this when other people stop misdirecting their complaints.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Does anybody else get sick of hearing this? It's the default reply whenever anybody complains about the cost of anything around here.

Fine. A new one for you. If you think oil companies are raping everyone, or banks, or whatever evil corporate sector, buy stocks in them and make money off it yourself. Use that money to buy gas and pay your bank fees.

I'll be the first to jump on oil companies for their environmental atrocities, but getting mad at a company for making money in a market economy is just silly.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Meh, such a typical answer everyone gets from someone in the oil industry. How would you suppose someone stops paying for gas? Gee i'll just walk 25 k to work or bike 30 minutes to the nearest transit stop. Not an option in calgary...especially when its below zero more then half the year.

Move and stop whining. You created your own dependency on gas by living 25km from work. Either pay high prices for gas and quit complaining, or do something about it.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Get a grip! If you don't want to walk 25k, live closer to work. It's a pretty common reality in most parts of the world, just because you're in oil country doesn't make you special.
Below zero more than half the year? Are you north of 60?

Hardly an option. Move closer to the downtown core and you're going to see a huge increase in price for renting and buying.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by JayP

Hardly an option. Move closer to the downtown core and you're going to see a huge increase in price for renting and buying.

Yeah, but that's nothing new when you look anywhere else in the civilized world. London has been like that for years. Same with New York, or pretty much any large city with a big downtown core. Calgary has been a bit of an anomaly the last decade with relatively low cost houses and high incomes downtown, and it was only a matter of time before that corrected itself.

If people don't want to commute 2 hours to downtown or pay huge amounts for an apartment so they can walk to work, they'll have to look at changing jobs. Our company doesn't pay as much as what you could make downtown, but being in a park like setting outside of the city, being able to walk or ride a bike to work, and not paying a bazillion dollars to park is quite appealing to the people who work here. No, we don't pay a receptionist $100k a year (probably a bit more than half that) but said receptionist can afford a nice condo in Mckenzie, and get to work within 10 minutes without the headaches associated with working downtown.

Fuel costs are going to start dictating lifestyles.....people need to start getting used to it.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by JayP

Hardly an option. Move closer to the downtown core and you're going to see a huge increase in price for renting and buying.

Yup, which is why you might have to trade in the house with a yard for an apartment with a balcony, like most of the world lives in. You can also move closer to a train station if you can't afford that option.

I'll admit that Calgary isn't a great place to try live with no car, so maybe a different city is the answer.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Fuel costs are going to start dictating lifestyles.....people need to start getting used to it.

I think this is the big take-away from this thread. For those who assume that this energy-crisis has been created by the ExxonMobils of the world. Think again, it's not like all these companies are sitting on millions of barrells of production, that they could unleash at a day's notice and bring your gas prices back down to 50 cents a litre. Less than 10 percent of the world's oil production even comes from publically traded large oil companies. The rest of the production and future opportunities are under control of National Oil companies such as Saudi Aramco, Pemex, Petrobras, CNOOC, et al that are under the control or are extentions of their local governments.

In fact the major oil companies would rather oil be half the cost it is now, because anything over $100 a barrell has the potential to do some serious long-term demand destruction over the next couple of decades. If Exxon could double it's production overnight it would be much more profitable as the cash flow brought in from doubling production would easily offset the downward impact the increased supply would cause, because they are barely even in the top 10 oil companies in the world vis-a-vis production. For the oil industry it's all hands on deck trying to crank out more production, but the geology and politics of oil prevent serious increases of supply.


The way this is going to play out over the next few years is that oil prices are now starting to affect both consumer's lifestyle decisions and the companies that offer products to these consumers. Those who can't afford to commute will do all or any combination of 1) Moving closer to where they work, 2) Downsizing the size of their living space 3) Buy more fuel efficient vehicles, 4)Find more alternative means of transportation, 5) Travel shorter distances for re-creation/vacation. 6) Buy less junk and useless things that don't contribute to their standard of living or quality of life (Any pack a day smokers on the thread? Heavy alcohol consumers? Anybody who owns closets full of shoes? pretty much eveyone of us who is middle class or higher has frivilous spending that far exceeds the cost of transportation fuel that we consume.

Those industries/companies that are impacted the most by these changes in consumer behavior will start: 1) offering more fuel-efficient/hybrid cars, 2) Grocery stores will respond to increasing fuel costs by buying food products that require less fuel to reach their stores 3) Oil companies will spend to the nines to increase production and refining capacity (We're already in the initial stages of the investment cycle in both Exploration/Production and Downstream refining.) 4) Airlines will cut service to respond to the lower demand (Already happening). 5) Many things that were considered marginal and hair-brained means of generating energy (Ie wind power, tidal power, alternative fuel) will be more economical and will also contribute to more demand destruction for oil.

The long-term effect of all these changes is going to be a more stable supply/demand scenario for oil. It's the market at work and any legislation or interferance to slow this down is going to result in more sudden/painful consequences at a medium term later date (Ie maybe in a year or two, supply shortages). Any legislation or market interference to speed these changes up, will cause more overall pain and suffering and will also hit people in the near term.

[mykalberta]

I dont think there is an "Enron" like feel to the current oil prices. I think it has to do with increased demand. Its what happens when you empower more people with motor vehicles. We have huge amounts of new consumers in both China and India who no longer want to take public transportation.

I hate the cost but you deal with it. I do think though that somewhere around the $150+ barrel mark there will be a consumer shift against gas prices and not so much oil companies but foreign governments should be aware that the gravy train while covered in virgin whores now will dry up if people believe they are being fleeced. Remember that the Exxon's of the world will still sell their oil in the US, its the Saudi Arabia etc that will be the odd man out.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Oh! The drama!

Get a grip! If you don't want to walk 25k, live closer to work. It's a pretty common reality in most parts of the world, just because you're in oil country doesn't make you special.
Below zero more than half the year? Are you north of 60?



Essential product, eh? "Inflating" the prices? As though it's Alberta oil companies that are in cahoots and are holding the world hostage? Do you have any idea how oil prices are set? It has much more to do with speculators than with producers. Go ahead and hate the oil companies for pulling something out of the ground and laughing all the way to the bank because investors are driving up the prices. That's like hating farmers for the price of wheat when they have almost no control over what their product sells for.



So big bad Stelmach is the one behind the demise of Meals on Wheels, eh? And he's also holding back wind power and hydrogen cars. I don't know where to start on this one... Maybe I'll skip right to the fact that hydrogen cars would be much worse for global warming than carbon burning cars ever were. You want to see a real greenhouse effect, start pumping tonnes of water vapor into the atmosphere and sit back for the show.

As for not knowing "what's next", I'll tell you that any and all charities that don't receive ample support by the communities that they operate in are next. If it really pains you that Meals on Wheels is having difficulties staying afloat, donate or volunteer. Blaming it on the government is ridiculous.



You can "complain about the cost for yourself". And I suspect that that is exactly what you're doing here. Trying to mask your complaint by involving a charity is weak. Sorry, dude... Your post is just terrible. You sound like an old NDPer that was too busy complaining to do his homework.



People will stop saying this when other people stop misdirecting their complaints.

How does one respond this? Sorry to say but when people like you say that not driving is an option it really makes you sound like you haven't lived a day in a canadian city.

Try finding a reasonable house/apartment in the downtown area of calgary, not gonna happen. Besides what are you supposed to move everytime you get a new opportunity? And last time i checked this is canada and we have snow on the ground anywhere from november 1st to may 31st....sure there might be days its nice inbetween that period but your sure as hell not going to travel by foot or bike during those months very often.

Like it or not if supply is controlled by an industry, cost is directly affected...simple economics here. No new refineries in canada in over thirty years, jeez that doesn't sound like supply is being controlled. Do a quick search and see how many refineries have been built globally in that time as well. Reference the calgary housing market the last few years for another common example of this supply and demand theory, its basically the same situation we have seen with oil and gas as well.

I don't recall blaming stelmach for meals on wheels, how about you re read my post...many politicians LIKE stelmach are not going to legislate cleaner burning fuels and price changes simply because of the support they receive from individuals involved in the oil and gas industry. Either way having a quarter of the worlds vehicles running on hydrogen would be a huge improvement on the current situation.....Thinking it would be less harmful to use gas is just wrong.

The fact you think that it is solely up to the average person to support charities and other services like meals on wheels is pretty sad. We all play a part and should toss in some cash but how aboutenron or shell write a few cheques, they could do a lot more with there billions of yearly profits then those of us earning average wages. They runs on donations and i've even participated in the service before. Its going to take a hell of a lot to save something that is so dependant on the costs of fuel when they continue to skyrocket. Pretty sad when society and people like you care more about a company making an extra zero on the yearly income then that of charitable programs.

And your damn right i'm blaming the government. They can gather to legislate almost anything, but wont jump in and put a hold on gas prices continuously rising when companies are continuously making more? I'd be fine with the prices at the pumps if oil companies were making a third of what they are now. Fact is, if the government legislated prices go back to 1.10 a litre every oil company would still make billions.

Tell me how you see this as fair to canadians and everyone else in the world? Oh and not to mention, how sick is someone that claims someone is "masking there own complaints behind a charity"? Infact, i'd say your post is pretty terrible...at least I take the time to look at some situations and realize that things can be helped and that maybe its time for runaway profits to stop.

[Burninator]

Affordable gas in not a right.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Move and stop whining. You created your own dependency on gas by living 25km from work. Either pay high prices for gas and quit complaining, or do something about it.

Not really, 2 years ago gas was maybe a fraction of my monthly income. Now that fraction is turned into a major expense. I carpool and take transit as much as possible, its unavoidable in most canadian cities. So tell me how I created this dependancy? Like 95% of canadians a car is the only source of transportation that is reasonable. How are meals and wheels supposed to carpool or reduce costs?

Love to do something, but judging by the responses on this thread and the common public perception in calgary and canada for that matter, its completely okay for prices to rise to 3 dollars a litre and see governments do nothing to put a hold on it when the indsutry is making more and more every year. If you look up prices across the globe, many governments have taken action in smaller countries to put some limits on price fluctuations perhaps ours can look at doing the same?

You'd never see protests like those that are going on in europe here because of that fact....we have way to many people who think its just fine. Sadly services like meals on wheels and others are going to be the first to go unless something changes.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Affordable gas is not a right.

Exactly. Of course, having 25% tax on it doesn't help. But that's another debate.

Realistically, people have to start to make better choices. Does everyone really need a 5.7L V8 truck to go from home to work and back? If you want one, you have to pay to play.

In 2002, when gas was at one point 60c/L, I had a 3.8L V6 1988 Thunderbird that got about 300-350km for a 50L tank. I was paying about $30 or about $10/100km...but that was a freak occurence and lasted all of about a week and a half. The average in 2002 was more like 75c/L. To fill up, it cost me $37.50 or roughly $12.50/100km. Since then, I upgraded to a 2.2L 4cyl. 2002 Sunfire. I now get between 475-550km per 50L tank, and even this has been surpassed in many newer vehicles. To fill up at 1.30/L, it costs me $65, or about $13.00/100km. Essentially, it costs me 50 cents more per 100km then it did in 2002. Hardly a wallet crippler.

My point? Things really aren't that bad if you choose to drive a reasonable vehicle. If one insists on a large SUV or high performance vehicle... you have to pay to play... or don't drive one. No one is entitled to cheap gas and subsidized lifestyle choices. No one is colluding here either... we rely on a costly commodity that is no longer cheap and plentiful.