Looking for advice on home additions

[octothorp]

Sometime in the next couple years, we're going to be looking at an addition to our house, and I'd love to get some advice on how to start that whole process; I'm guessing that some other Calgarypuckers have gone through this before. We won't be doing this until the summer of 2010, but I want to do as much planning on it as possible beforehand.

The first issue is finding out whether it's even possible to do what we want to do: specifically, adding a second story to our house. It's an old, inner city house (1912) on a small lot, and there's two big questions:

Firstly whether we can get a permit to build a second floor. The house next door to us was at one point a similar dwelling that had a second level added (likely in the 1970s), so I imagine it should be possible. But how does that whole process work? Do we need to get an architect to draw up plans before going and getting a permit? Can we get information from the city on what sorts of structures and additions are allowed on our property? I certainly wouldn't want to pay for an architect and an inspection of the existing property before finding out if we'd even be allowed to put in a second floor.

Secondly, how do we go about getting an inspection to see what sort of additions our existing property can support? Despite it's age, the foundation seems to be pretty solid (we've never had any problem with leaks in the basement, despite our proximity to the river), and I'm told that the narrow width of the house (combined with the fact that it was build in an era when studs were closer together and walls were built with fir rather than pine) will make it easier for the existing structure to support a second level. But really it would require an expert evaluation. Are there companies that specialize in simply evaluating the strength and quality of existing structures?

When it comes to the actual construction, I'm planning on working with a builder who specializes in additions (any recommendations anyone has would be great) as opposed to coordinating the whole process myself, but I don't want to put a lot of money up right now or commit to a builder until I've determined that it's actually going to be possible to do what I want with the property. Do I hire a builder now, get them to do the inspection process, or should I coordinate that myself for now, and then hire a builder when I know how I want to proceed?

[DFO]

I'm kinda in the same boat, just bought a tiny house on a full sized lot. We are debating if it is worth looking into adding a second level as part of a full reno or just bulldoze the thing and start fresh with a custom builder. I'm thinking we may as well start fresh because we would really just be left with a foundation and a shell of a house if we went the reno route - the savings probably wouldn't outweigh the problems in the end.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by DFO

I'm kinda in the same boat. Just bought a 800s house on a full sized lot. We are debating if it is worth looking into adding a second level as part of a full reno or just bulldoze the thing and start fresh with a custom builder. I'm thinking we may as well start fresh because we would really just be left with a foundation and a shell of a house if we went the reno route - the savings probably wouldn't outweigh the problems in the end.

I think you'd get most or all of the cost of the starting over scenario though better real estate value.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Sometime in the next couple years, we're going to be looking at an addition to our house, and I'd love to get some advice on how to start that whole process; I'm guessing that some other Calgarypuckers have gone through this before. We won't be doing this until the summer of 2010, but I want to do as much planning on it as possible beforehand.

The first issue is finding out whether it's even possible to do what we want to do: specifically, adding a second story to our house. It's an old, inner city house (1912) on a small lot, and there's two big questions:

Firstly whether we can get a permit to build a second floor. The house next door to us was at one point a similar dwelling that had a second level added (likely in the 1970s), so I imagine it should be possible. But how does that whole process work? Do we need to get an architect to draw up plans before going and getting a permit? Can we get information from the city on what sorts of structures and additions are allowed on our property? I certainly wouldn't want to pay for an architect and an inspection of the existing property before finding out if we'd even be allowed to put in a second floor.

Secondly, how do we go about getting an inspection to see what sort of additions our existing property can support? Despite it's age, the foundation seems to be pretty solid (we've never had any problem with leaks in the basement, despite our proximity to the river), and I'm told that the narrow width of the house (combined with the fact that it was build in an era when studs were closer together and walls were built with fir rather than pine) will make it easier for the existing structure to support a second level. But really it would require an expert evaluation. Are there companies that specialize in simply evaluating the strength and quality of existing structures?

When it comes to the actual construction, I'm planning on working with a builder who specializes in additions (any recommendations anyone has would be great) as opposed to coordinating the whole process myself, but I don't want to put a lot of money up right now or commit to a builder until I've determined that it's actually going to be possible to do what I want with the property. Do I hire a builder now, get them to do the inspection process, or should I coordinate that myself for now, and then hire a builder when I know how I want to proceed?

Hire me as your Draftperson, and I will walk you thru the entire process. PM if you have any questions.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by DFO

I'm kinda in the same boat, just bought a tiny house on a full sized lot. We are debating if it is worth looking into adding a second level as part of a full reno or just bulldoze the thing and start fresh with a custom builder. I'm thinking we may as well start fresh because we would really just be left with a foundation and a shell of a house if we went the reno route - the savings probably wouldn't outweigh the problems in the end.

If you ever consider 'starting from scratch', and you need a design and a draftsperson, drop me a line. I can apply for Development Permits for you and deal with the City thru the process.

[onetwo_threefour]

Pay a lawyer a couple of hundred bucks (or less if he's reasonable, like me) first to review the title for you and make sure there are no restrictive covenants or caveats on title that are going to cause you legal headaches over and above the normal planning issues. Inner-city neighbourhoods are rife with old caveats and covenants that can cause problems. Unfortunately, the fact that a neighbour may have done something a while ago doesn't mean much as there was a change in legal procedures in 2002-2003 that made it much more difficult to deal with these things. If you have a copy of your title, you can PM me and then provide me with a pdf and I may be able to tell you right off the bat whether you have anything to worry about on title. If nothing's there I will tell you. If there is something that would need to be pulled and looked at, I would let you know and let you know how much I would charge to have a look at it. Usually less than a hundred, unless there are a bunch or they are excessively complicated.

Assuming there is nothing wrong, MGF is about right. A reputable general contractor will be able to walk you through the process as will any decent design firm. Ones who have been around for a while will also be able to tell you what design changes can help get approvals through the PDAB smoothly.

Good luck...

[DuffMan]

I think you have to ask your direct neighbors, if it is OK with them, I think.

[ken0042]

Make sure you know and understand as much of the process as possible. One resource that heavily shows the side of the homeowner is Mike Holmes. I think he's done a couple of shows where the original contractor screwed up a 2nd story addition (there's at least one in any case.) Plus his book "Making it Right" is pretty in depth about a lot of what he talks about in his show about hiring a contractor.

As I said he does lean towards the side of the homeowner, and a lot of what he does is overkill, but its a good place to start to see what you are getting yourself into.

[DuffMan]

I just ordered HoH season 1 - 6.
I'll let you know what he says.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I think you have to ask your direct neighbors, if it is OK with them, I think.

Nope, neighbours only have a chance to appeal a development over a 2 week period, following the approval of the permit. Although, it is a nice gesture to advise them of what you plan on doing.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

Pay a lawyer a couple of hundred bucks (or less if he's reasonable, like me) first to review the title for you and make sure there are no restrictive covenants or caveats on title that are going to cause you legal headaches over and above the normal planning issues. Inner-city neighbourhoods are rife with old caveats and covenants that can cause problems. Unfortunately, the fact that a neighbour may have done something a while ago doesn't mean much as there was a change in legal procedures in 2002-2003 that made it much more difficult to deal with these things.

I went through this process once before with a developer here in Calgary. Not. Fun.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...06abqb230.html

Some of the restrictive covenants you will encounter in the older Calgary neighborhoods are a big PITA. I can recall one in particular that restricted the size of a home that could be built on any given lot which, effectively, prevented infills from going up. The RC was registered on all but a handful of the lots in the the area. Thanks to Furano v. Montgomery, notice of the application had to go to every owner with the same RC on their title. We had to serve a few hundred people.

There are a few different tests to meet if you want to have the RC discharged but one of them, under the Land Titles Act, requires the discharge to be in the public interest. In that case, all it would take is a neighbor or two to pop in to court with an affidavit saying it's not in their best interest and your application can be defeated.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by ken0042

As I said he does lean towards the side of the homeowner, and a lot of what he does is overkill, but its a good place to start to see what you are getting yourself into.

Holmes is good at what he does but he really does scare the beejebus out of homeowners. There are bad contractors out there but they're not all bad. I remember Holmes was at the Red Deer Home Show one year and he asked the crowd whether anybody was a contractor? I raised my hand and he said, "You must hate me?" and I replied, "On the contrary, you make my job, working for a professional roofing company, easier by warning people about cheaper contractors." It's true. Sometimes it's really not worth going with the cheaper option.

As for the addition question. We added on to our home in Red Deer about seven years ago. We added on a 600 sq. ft. addition. The process went quite well. We had to get a relaxation from the city as our lot is non-conforming. We hired a contractor that I knew very well, through work. Hiring a contractor that you don't know can be worrying. I would say go with a reputable company, ask for references and about insurance protection etc. (I.E. liability insurances, WCB things like that.) Any reputable company would have them.

We also looked into a second story addition and are still interested in that. We had a structural engineer inspect the existing structure to confirm whether our existing house could take the weight etc. and got a written report from him. That was quite a few years back now and it cost about $300 to $400 IIRC.

There are some hoops to go through for sure but ultimately it's completely worth it. We have enjoyed an addition for many years now and have forgotten about the tough times getting the thing built!

Good luck.

[onetwo_threefour]

Not to toot my own horn, but I am becoming a bit of a specialist on these applications. The original case that caused the problems was Potts v. McCann. http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...02abqb734.html (That is the change in practice I was referring to in my earlier post)

There have been a few decisions such as the one mentioned that have further expanded on Potts, but that was the problem case. Luckily, over the past few years, the practice in private chambers has clarified a little. In some cases, with a strong affidavit and good advocacy, the Master won't require every single party who has the instrument registered to be served. In one case we had one in Inverness registered against about 250 homes, and I ended up having to serve 38 altogether. But it is definitely a case by case thing.

Really though, the hope would be that there isn't anything on title, and a quick review can set your mind at ease or let you know that you have a challenge ahead.