Help! Car Accident and "Fraud"

[bluejays]

Ok, a little scenario that happened to my dad on Feb. 20th or so. He was at a gas station, filled up and backed into another car when leaving. He hit the other car's rear driverside bumper near the gas tank. Anyway, the kid driving the car suggested and my dad agreed to settle out of insurance since it was minor with basically a small dent in the bumper and the obvious paint damage. No insurance info exchanged aside from home numbers and my dad's policy number given to the kid for whatever reason (without the insurance company). Well, the kid goes home and tells his father (apparently father's car) and the dad nicely has been calling our house speaking to my dad. Anyway, we have a really good body shop guy who literally would charge no more than $200 I'm sure considering no structural damage, but the father refused to take it anywhere but this particular person he knows. Anyway, my dad just said that there's no choice there, and that the shop fax us the estimate before doing anything. They fax the estimate to us, and there are several things totally out of wack.

1) Date on the top and bottom of the "estimate" are dated Dec. 27/07. We're not even sure if this is the actual car. The VIN and make are there, but my dad never even took this guys car info down.

2) 10 hours in total labour for this job, with removing left door handles also involved in the job. Considering our car is a 2001 Sebring (low car), there's no way it hit this guys handles (my dad said there would be no way, but did say there is a slight possibility the left door got scratched).

3) The recent death of my grandmother means we're pretty cashstrapped so my dad said he'd use his Visa, but this guy says he doesn't accept Visa or any cards as a form of payment apparently according to the kids father.


Here are some anomalies of this situation. A few days back, I was in a bad car accident (nobody injured and the other party was in fault) so really, we don't want to go to insurance simply because it's a dinger on the record for such a minor fender bender. Second, we live in Toronto and from what I hear, you have to report any accidents within 48 hours or there's no case? We don't mind paying this guy, so spare the lecture, but really, he's refusing to take it anywhere else, and it seriously has a tone of he's screwing us. Now, my dad really has a bad heart condition and he's worrying silly about this and it looks like I'm gonna call the kids father up tomorrow and blast him for suggesting a place that he "wouldn't trust anyone else" to giving his car, but this trustworthy place is giving us a misdated fraudulant "estimate". Is there anything insurance would do if we went to them now (basically, would insurance cover us almost a month later in Ontario)? What would you guys suggest considering all these odd circumstances?

[killer_carlson]

pretty easy to handle actually. Go through your insurance. It is what you have it for. It might mean your rates go up when you renew, but it is going to end the stress and likely not cost as much as the time and money it will take to stick it to the jerk who is trying to pull a fast one on your dad.

Use your insurance.

[Flames09]

Sorry I dont have much to contribute but my story, someone I know backed up into this guys car, the guy didn't have a single scratch on his car but they exchanged info anyways, this guy calls 4 weeks later with a $2000 bill, we laughed at him and told him he can go straight to the cops and they'll investigate, he never called back again, some people are idiots.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

pretty easy to handle actually. Go through your insurance. It is what you have it for. It might mean your rates go up when you renew, but it is going to end the stress and likely not cost as much as the time and money it will take to stick it to the jerk who is trying to pull a fast one on your dad.

Use your insurance.

That's what my mom is suggesting, but the thing is, if he is trying to pull a fast one, I heard in Ontario you have to report an accident to a reporting centre within 48 hours of the accident, if not...don't know. So what if we report it this late? It's almost a month. What are the implications of doing so? Believe me, I'm a generous guy and everything, but this guy is totally not being reasonable, and even though I'm not vindictive, I just don't wanna return this guys calls so that he sweats. I'm so angry.

[Tower]

Originally Posted by fleury

That's what my mom is suggesting, but the thing is, if he is trying to pull a fast one, I heard in Ontario you have to report an accident to a reporting centre within 48 hours of the accident, if not...don't know. So what if we report it this late? It's almost a month. What are the implications of doing so? Believe me, I'm a generous guy and everything, but this guy is totally not being reasonable, and even though I'm not vindictive, I just don't wanna return this guys calls so that he sweats. I'm so angry.

If the accident is under $1000 you don't have to report it... This is there fault for not reporting it and you should call the police, and also your insurance company. One call from a detective would most likely clear anything up. If you have those dates on the paper I think you'll also be just fine.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by fleury

That's what my mom is suggesting, but the thing is, if he is trying to pull a fast one, I heard in Ontario you have to report an accident to a reporting centre within 48 hours of the accident, if not...don't know. So what if we report it this late? It's almost a month. What are the implications of doing so? Believe me, I'm a generous guy and everything, but this guy is totally not being reasonable, and even though I'm not vindictive, I just don't wanna return this guys calls so that he sweats. I'm so angry.

Let him sweat. Phone your insurance company and/or the cops. Let them handle it.

An estimate dated from before the accident happened. This can't be anything but a scam.

[bluejays]

Also forgot to mention is that the total bill was something like $895. It may not sound like much, but considering everything, it's a hell of a lot more than it should. My civic in comparison with major body work that needs to be done with realignment and all after my accident is costing $3100. I'm just really steamed. Looks like it's a certainty I should call my insurance company and the police though. Keep the advice rolling.

[RougeUnderoos]

Was the car he hit a DeLorean?

[killer_carlson]

explain to your insurance company why you didn't report it earlier. I'll go out on a limb and say that you won't be the first person this has happened to.

I'll also go out on a limb and say that an insurance adjuster will get hyperactive about the enjoyment of sticking it to someone who is trying to submit a repair bill estimate from months before the accident.

If your dad has a heart condition and is stressing about this, to me it's a no brainer what you should be doing. Money is money, but your dad getting sick over something as stupid as this, you can't put a price on that.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Was the car he hit a DeLorean?

\/\/ my sig \/\/

[Ozy_Flame]

The cops usually have a say in whether it's a fraudulent claim too. I bumped a guy's car from behind last Fall. No damage, and i hit him at about 5 km / hr waiting to merge. I took pictures of all angles on his car from my phone with no damage at all, but he said it will have to be a few days before he can find out if he had whiplash. Low and behold, he made a claim against me, and the cops looked into it and told him to get bent when they found out there was no damage and it was 3 days afterwards.

I did go to my insurance company and report it though; you should to. You don't have to make a claim, but they can provide procedural advice for what happens in case you do want to go through a claim.

[fredr123]

My wife was involved in a parking lot fender bender earlier this week. She was backing out of a parking stall and turning to her right. Whilst doing so, another car came around the corner and bumped into her. There were a few scratches on the other car's front driver side bumper but it looks like our car got the worst of it: a dent in the rear driver side panel and some scratches to our bumper.

The occupants of the other car were irate and adamant that it was solely my wife's fault. Getting any insurance info out of them was next to impossible. All they would do is tell my wife their name and wrote down the name of their insurance agent. My wife gave them her name, phone number, insurance company and policy number. They talked about reporting the accident to the police but the other driver was too busy to do that.

I met up with my wife half an hour later and inspected the damage. It's not hard to rack up more than $1,000 in damages so off we went to report the accident. The CPS officer was awesome and could only shake his head at how the other driver reacted. Luckily my wife got the other car's license plate and her friend snapped a few pics on her cell phone.

When we got home we reported the accident to our insurance company (TD Melloche Monnex) though we weren't certain we would actually process the claim through them. We just didn't want these guys reporting something completely false later on and causing us grief.

We have an accident forgiveness provision on our policy that allows us to make one claim or get one conviction in a six year period without it negatively affecting our rates. We also have a 10% discount for no convictions or claims. According to our company, we could take care of all costs to repair both vehicles ourselves without it negatively affecting our insurance rates.

I suppose we could have handled everything on our own without involving the insurance companies but having the adjusters deal with fault and getting estimates was a giant load off our mind. Anyways, my advice based on all the above is to call up your insurance company and chat.

[CaramonLS]

You can report to the cops whenever you want to. A month, 3 months, it doesn't matter and there is no need to explain. If asked you can say you didn't think the damage would be over 1000$ (combined).

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The cops usually have a say in whether it's a fraudulent claim too. I bumped a guy's car from behind last Fall. No damage, and i hit him at about 5 km / hr waiting to merge. I took pictures of all angles on his car from my phone with no damage at all, but he said it will have to be a few days before he can find out if he had whiplash. Low and behold, he made a claim against me, and the cops looked into it and told him to get bent when they found out there was no damage and it was 3 days afterwards.

I did go to my insurance company and report it though; you should to. You don't have to make a claim, but they can provide procedural advice for what happens in case you do want to go through a claim.

Almost identical thing happened to my bro a couple years ago. People are such a-holes. At least the cops seem to know when to tell someone to take a hike.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Almost identical thing happened to my bro a couple years ago. People are such a-holes. At least the cops seem to know when to tell someone to take a hike.

About 6 years ago I bumped a guy in front of me who stalled his car at a green light. The light went green, I started to move, I looked away momentarily, and when I noticed he had slammed on his brakes I had enough time to hit mine but still lurched into his car. Unfortunately my tow hooks were lined up with his tail lights, and I ended up breaking one. I told the guy I would pay cash, but he wanted no part of that. He was pretty adamant that we needed to call the cops and report it, and I was pretty curious as to why. We finally settle, and decide I'll pay cash to fix his broken tail light, which is $100 max.

2 hours later I get a call from the cops saying I need to come down and fill out an accident report. 2 weeks later I get a call from my insurance company saying that he's in physio for a sore neck, and will be looking for a settlement. I guess where some people see minor fender benders and inconveniences, others see dollar signs.

Trust no one in these situations. At least that's what I've learned.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Trust no one in these situations. At least that's what I've learned.

It's just so pathetic. And what goes around, comes around. For example: one day I was giving my little sis driving lessons. I was driving at the time and was yapping on and on about certain concepts of driving that need to be understood. We were pulling out of a parking stall and I ticked a minivan (that was in motion). The other driver, a nice middle aged lady, says that the minor scratch doesn't bother her. We'll exchange info and if her husband cares, then we'll do something about it.
I get a call later that day from the husband who tells me that it's no big deal and that he has some touch-up paint and to just forget about it. "These things happen. It's not the end of the world".
I was pretty happy about that.

About two weeks later, my dad and I were bumping along in his crappy old van. For some reason, my dad must own, at all times, a spare beater.
So we get rear ended by some guy that could barely speak english, but was very flustered and clearly sorry. He was visibly scared that his world was now on the verge of disaster over this minor dent he put in the back of our ugly van.
I had related my story to my dad about the events of a couple of weeks ago, and so my dad just winked at me and told the guy to relax and forget about it. I've never seen such a look of pure relief as that guy had that day. Hopefully he kept the cycle going and he's not one of the dickheads in these other stories.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by fredr123

We also have a 10% discount for no convictions or claims. According to our company, we could take care of all costs to repair both vehicles ourselves without it negatively affecting our insurance rates.

If your insurer pays out? You sure? Pretty certain that 10% claims free discount will dissapear on you next renewal.

[Russic]

I had a bit of an inverted experience. I was rear-ended ages ago. The guy who hit me had a friend who does autobody work and he insisted that we use him to fix our car. We politely informed him that because he was at fault we would be taking the car to a shop of our choosing. Sure enough there was more internal damage than initially suspected so the bill quickly rose over 2000$.

They freaked and claimed that we were trying to rip them off. After their little temper-tantrum we decided to stop dealing with them and go directly to their insurance company. The insurance company was awesome to deal with and they looked into whether the shop we were using was legit. Once they confirmed the shop to be respectable there were no problems.

My point in all this is that your insurance will look into this shop and as soon as they realize the oddities, they'll probably raise some questions. Not worth the stress . . . go to your insurance asap and voice your concerns.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

If your insurer pays out? You sure? Pretty certain that 10% claims free discount will dissapear on you next renewal.

Yah, I wasn't clear above. That would disappear on renewal. Next accident after this one would result in a big bump in premiums too. They told me if we paid all the costs ourselves and they didn't have to pay anything out we would be able to maintain the discount and our freebie but the accident would still be on record with them. I was assured it would not affect our rates.

The worst part is that my wife really wants to pay for this on our own. She wants to keep the discount and the freebie in place for her next accident which she assumes will be worse.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Yah, I wasn't clear above. That would disappear on renewal. Next accident after this one would result in a big bump in premiums too. They told me if we paid all the costs ourselves we would be able to maintain the discount and our freebie but the accident would still be on record with them. I was assured it would not affect our rates.

The worst part is that my wife really wants to pay for this on our own. She wants to keep the discount and the freebie in place for her next accident which she assumes will be worse.

And probably a solid plan. Numerous insurers are offering the "free accident" t to their top rated drivers and you really do want to save it for a more expensive accident.